Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

8-way configuration? Anyone?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I’ve done exactly what AllHailJ suggested when I originally shifted to the Leviton switches. Now that I’m converting to Homeseer I’ve just been capping them in the wall.

    Comment


    • #17
      I'll pipe in here. I believe the 5 companion switch is arbitrary limit and I see no reason why there cannot be 10 or more.
      • The Jasco (GE) companions in the photos above are the same as HomeSeer companions. They can be used interchangeably.
      • The traveler input on the HomeSeer switch has a small DC voltage applied to it through a pull up resistor. There is no AC on the traveler connection.
      • The companion has two resistors - 180K (1803) and a 4.3M (E16). The button connects one of the two resistors between the traveler and neutral connections on the switch or dimmer. The diode is only so it won't work when the neutral and traveler are inverted.
      • When neither button is pressed, there is infinite resistance between the neutral and traveler. When a button is pressed on one of the companions, the traveler voltage connection is pulled down by a 180 kilohm resistor for the top paddle and by 4.3 megohm resistor on the bottom paddle. The circuitry inside the switch or dimmer looks at the voltage of the traveler connection to determine which of the two buttons are pressed and if neither is pressed, there is no voltage drop. If buttons are pressed on two companions at the same time, it won't hurt anything, but the voltages will be out of range.
      • Since the companions present infinite resistance when neither button is pressed, it is unlikely that there will be a hard limit to the number of companions. Because these are such high impedances, it is possible that leakage could be a problem, but I don't see it.
      I would first try a single dimmer or switch with 7 companions, before looking at more complex solutions. I think you will find that it works.
      Randy Prade
      Aurora, CO
      Prades.net

      PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by AllHailJ View Post
        You can use one of the travelers (generally black) to transport power where you need it as z-wave auxiliary switches only uses one wire to connect travelers.
        Doh! I have been thinking 2 dimensionally again. Of course you could mount the main ZWave control switch in switch box 3 through switch box 8, with the two standalone's installed in switch box 1 and 2. The black traveler upstream from the main control switch would carry the line power, and downstream carry the load power. The upstream standalone's would just tap into the traveler carrying the line power.

        Thinking about it more, you would not even need that second standalone switch, Just use another auxiliary, but instead of connecting its signal wire to the main switch, connect it to the remaining standalone.

        But like RPrade said, I would try the 7 auxiliaries first, if possible.

        So we have essentially solved the OP's problem. Now the big question: Is the solution understood?

        Comment


        • #19
          If you put the master switch where the load wiring goes to the light then the black is always line, red is always traveler and white is always neutral. You have dimmer or on/off control at all the slave switches. I am also wondering if the 5 limit is in series. If it is, you just have to make sure you install so half of the slaves are on each side and you never go more than 4 switches to the master. This would be your scenario where black is line or load depending on where to load and line enter the circuit.

          I can't believe marketing would introduce a limit that engineering didn't set. Usually it is over promise / under deliver by marketing. Only way to find out for certain is to try. If edentel does this and it works I would sure like to know just to satisfy my curiosity.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by AllHailJ View Post
            If you put the master switch where the load wiring goes to the light then the black is always line, red is always traveler and white is always neutral. You have dimmer or on/off control at all the slave switches. I am also wondering if the 5 limit is in series. If it is, you just have to make sure you install so half of the slaves are on each side and you never go more than 4 switches to the master. This would be your scenario where black is line or load depending on where to load and line enter the circuit.

            I can't believe marketing would introduce a limit that engineering didn't set. Usually it is over promise / under deliver by marketing. Only way to find out for certain is to try. If edentel does this and it works I would sure like to know just to satisfy my curiosity.
            If we are talking about GE (Jasco) or HS devices the companion switches are all wired in parallel. As I wrote above, it is a simple resistance between the traveler and neutral. I would have picked lower values to make it more immune to leakage, but for some reason they went with very high values.
            Randy Prade
            Aurora, CO
            Prades.net

            PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

            Comment


            • #21
              As usual you are correct. The traveler is a box to box bus. Duh!

              Comment


              • #22
                I am not a lawyer, I just want to throw some caution in this. If you go beyond the specs and you have a fire that starts in the circuit, your insurance will not cover. This is a real concern. Low probability but high impact.

                Comment


                • #23
                  I read all this and found it interesting reading, then I saw the Zooz switch Z-26 requiring only the main switch/dimmer be z-wave. The others can be regular on/off switches, no z-wave required and no dimmers allowed.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    AllHailJ - exactly why I figured I’d ping the group mind. I can’t see any reason for it NOT to work short of attenuation. With the older Insteon stuff I dealt with signal degradation once I had installed a substantial number. The more modern devices got around that. All that said while I might experiment with it I don’t think I’ll install it if I’m not compliant with manufacturer design/specs.

                    Racerfern - I read through the Zooz manuals and found that same 5 way limitation in their documents as well. That one drives me the battiest as they are purely acting as contact closure with no signaling.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I think you can stay compliant by doing master + 3 companion switches (5 way) + 3 additional master switches (8 way) tied to no load but linked to the master switch. You then have dimming capability at every switch. No events or scripts should be necessary. I sent a PM to Marc at Homeseer and have not heard a response. I have even considered calling Jasco in OKC to see if I can get an answer. I would really like to know the engineering reason behind the 5 way limit.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Compliance may not be an issue since the companions are likely to be class 2 devices. They are neither provided with nor carry any line voltages.
                        Randy Prade
                        Aurora, CO
                        Prades.net

                        PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rprade View Post
                          Compliance may not be an issue since the companions are likely to be class 2 devices. They are neither provided with nor carry any line voltages.
                          I have measured line voltage across the traveler and neutral. 120v AC as well as about 7v DC. This is a WS200.

                          Click image for larger version

Name:	120vOnTraveler.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	53.2 KB
ID:	1354332Click image for larger version

Name:	7vOnTraveler.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	56.9 KB
ID:	1354333

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by AllHailJ View Post
                            I think you can stay compliant by doing master + 3 companion switches (5 way) + 3 additional master switches (8 way) tied to no load but linked to the master switch. You then have dimming capability at every switch. No events or scripts should be necessary. I sent a PM to Marc at Homeseer and have not heard a response. I have even considered calling Jasco in OKC to see if I can get an answer. I would really like to know the engineering reason behind the 5 way limit.
                            This is exactly what I said back in post #3.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X