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    Dimmers and outlet advice

    Hi, new to HS. I think I'm going to be running HS4 on either a controller or possibly a server. I'm trying to pick a lighting/outlet system to standardize on. I will probably be running maybe 20-30 devices over time - a combination of dimmers, on/off lights, outlets. I was thinking either insteon or z-wave. I'm willing to pay up a little bit for reliability/quality. A few questions
    • I want reliability and limited delay when changing multiple lights at once - do the insteon switches have any noticeable delay when changing multiple lights at the same time?
    • Since insteon is both radio and powerline this seems more robust than Z-wave? And also better with reporting status back to the controller?
    • On the negative side I've read that the Insteon modem/PM has been failing pretty regularly? Anyone having this issue?
    • Are there any other lighting systems you'd consider that I haven't mentioned?
    Any help on those / other suggestions are much appreciated.

    #2
    Deja vu? This question looks awfully familiar.

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      #3
      I use z-wave (z-net), zigbee (conbee) and even x-10(TI103) My reliability is 100%, 100% and 99% respectively. I have about 45 or so devices.

      I haven't upgraded to HS4 yet..

      Robert
      HS3PRO 3.0.0.500 as a Fire Daemon service, Windows 2016 Server Std Intel Core i5 PC HTPC Slim SFF 4GB, 120GB SSD drive, WLG800, RFXCom, TI103,NetCam, UltraNetcam3, BLBackup, CurrentCost 3P Rain8Net, MCsSprinker, HSTouch, Ademco Security plugin/AD2USB, JowiHue, various Oregon Scientific temp/humidity sensors, Z-Net, Zsmoke, Aeron Labs micro switches, Amazon Echo Dots, WS+, WD+ ... on and on.

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        #4
        When I was where you are I looked at device availability. At that time Insteon was only made by one company. While I am not positive, I believe this is still true. Based on that I went with z-wave. Zigbee was relatively new and not standardized. Flashing tasmota to Shelly or sonoff devices did not exist. Okay, I don't the devices themselves existed...

        I have a 2 switches using the sonoff units with tasmota and MQTT. While many people now go this route, I doubt I will be adding any more. I will be adding more homemade environment sensors using tasmota. But for switches, I don't need the extra science experiment, as my brother called it, of flashing devices.

        The only issue I have had with z-wave came from when I was first adding devices. I had a couple which were too far for communication. I ended up adding a lamp module in an unused receptacle until I had more wall switches in the mix.

        If you go with z-wave know that battery driven sensors such as motion detector may be slower to report than you desire. I have not experienced this with ones which are powered and never wanted battery devices.

        My current setup has over 50 z-wave devices. For wall switches I like the Leviton units.
        Karl S
        HS4Pro on Windows 10
        1070 Devices
        56 Z-Wave Nodes
        104 Events
        HSTouch Clients: 3 Android, 1 iOS
        Google Home: 3 Mini units, 1 Pair Audios, 2 Displays

        Comment


          #5
          I use Insteon for exactly the reasons you stated - speed and reliability. I am not a Z-wave expert by any means. I only have 4 devices. They seem to work well, but they are low volume, low criticality devices and I'm not sure I would even notice if they missed a command now and then. I am however very familiar with Insteon. Intuitively, a system that has two different comm paths just HAS TO BE more reliable than a system that only has one. I have 155 Insteon devices in my home (and another 40 or so in my RV) spread over 6500 sq ft. Most of my devices run in the 97 to 100% comm reliability range. 100% means the message got through without a re-transmission. 97% doesn't means it failed, just that it had to do at least one re-transmission. It has taken some effort to get to a reliable system. You need to include a bunch of FilterLincs in the system to make the powerline side of the comm reliable. I have a couple other posts on that topic explaining what to look for and how to fix it. Essentially its just finding the electronics that load the powerline signal and putting a filterlinc on it. The number one culprit is the PC, screen and printer that is likely plugged into the same outlet as the PLM. The power filters built into most PC's and TV's are absolute Insteon/X10 powerline signal killers and need a FilterLinc. Doing so makes a huge difference in the speed and reliability of Insteon. Anyone who complains about Insteon's speed and reliability has likely not done this step.

          With regard to Insteon PLM failures: That is mostly related to Version 1 of the PLM, which had some high voltage capacitors on the AC power that were not rated high enough and failed over time. That was likely caused by lightning strikes and other powerline surges. I had two of those that failed after maybe 4 years (one at home and one in the RV). However, I have whole house surge protection, so that may have made mine live longer than other people experienced. They made some significant improvements to PLM Version 2. They upgraded the capacitor ratings, and also increased the powerline output signal power. The new version works better and should last much longer. Mine are about 2 years old and have not failed. So that is no longer an issue you should worry about. Nonetheless, the PLM is a crucial piece of the system, so I keep at least one spare on hand. Mark's plugin has a facility for replacing the PLM (or any device) that makes it easy to do.

          The only devices I have any grief from are the wireless motion sensors. They occasionally are unable to get a command back to HomeSeer. Seems to be when the Insteon traffic is busy. I think maybe the wireless devices give up while the wired devices are more persistent waiting their turn to send a message. For that reason, I use wired motion sensors wherever possible. But I still have 10 wireless ones. The ones closer to the PLM work great. The ones that are further away and need to hop a few times to get through occasionally have trouble. It gets worse as the batteries get low. I hate to throw out a battery until its really dead, so I bring on a few of my own troubles ...

          I recently had some problems on the RF side. Traced it down to conflict with the AirThings Hub (radon monitor) that I added. It uses the same 915 MHz RF frequency that Insteon uses and was causing Insteon to miss lots of commands. I shut down the hub and let the sensors run on BlueTooth and its been fine since.

          Now that my system has good comms on both RF and Powerline it is lightning fast. The response time for a single command is a fraction of a second. Of course that depends on how you write the events. If you have 20 sequential commands go out at the same time, there is going to be a couple seconds delay for the last one. It just takes some thought to order the commands so the ones you want to respond quickly go out first. When I have a long string of commands to go out, I do 4 or 5 commands, then a 1 or 2 second delay, then 4 or 5 more. That allows any incoming wireless commands to find a break in the action to send in their commands and not get lost.

          Bottom line: I love Insteon. With a little effort to get the powerline side working properly you will be very happy with it.

          Comment


            #6
            I would recommend Lutron. Yes, it's a bit more expensive, but it is totally solid, and you can set it up so you don't HS HS or some local or cloud automation system running for basic functionality. You don't want lighting to ever be flaky. Family members will give you no end of grief for that. And, if you sell your house, that system can continue to be used well without the new buyer needing to run HS or something else. Lutron is a net add to value in the home, whereas esp Zwave and maybe insteon are value subtractors (unless the new buyer is an automation fan).

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