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  • #46
    2nd z-net

    Before I go and make a huge mistake, would like suggestions on proper configuration.

    I have a long ranch house, with the primary z-net on one end of the house to pick up the devices in the garage. I decided to purchase a second with the plan of installing it on the other end for those devices.. which some times have communication issues and multiple routes seem to be killing the battery life on the devices in between. It was my understanding that you can add a 2nd z-net and use the " make this interface an inclusive controller on another network". I thought this would leave the second z-net on a separate network, but now see that it makes it a secondary controller on the main network.

    I have seen many cases of this not being recommended and to use separate networks, but then I can't let the system choose the best path, which was my plan, add a node to either and optimize the route.

    So a few questions if someone can assist
    Does "make this interface an inclusive controller on another network" work? if not why the option?
    Why does the information for the z-net describe being able to add devices to either and optimizing for best route?
    What is the best method?
    Will the above work for only 50 devices?

    I also noticed that in the install instructions for the z-net, it really doesn't cover if it is the second, only how to move from one to another, it could use some editing.

    I can see if my network grows, how and why I might want a separate network all together, the limit mentioned seems to be 100, doubt I will ever hit 100 in this house. I plan on taking this to the workshop outside, and will put it on another network. but for now, still just worried about the devices in the house and the battery life of the devices passing hop data along (one is a door lock on a door that is never used, it seems to be the mid point and is used by all the devices in the far side of the house)

    Suggestions welcomed... PLEASE..lol

    Comment


    • #47
      These days, Z-Net is about $150 on Amazon. For $100, you can buy a new hub called Hubitat. Both HS and Hubitat, with minimal efforts, talk Mqtt; and so, the solution is straight-forward.

      The disadvantage is that you will have 2 separate Z-wave networks.
      On the plus side, there are several points. First, for some unexplainable reasons, some devices (but not all) work better when they connected to Hubitat. (e.g. Everspring Flood sensors or Fortrezz Valve actuators); and so, you get the best of the two.

      Secondly, Hubitat also works with ZigBee devices; and this opens a world of opportunities. But even if I were to limit this new world to just motion sensors, it would still worth it. For the response time, any known to me ZigBee Motion sensor will easily beat any Z-wave sensor. Also, the Zigbees are typically cheaper. You buy two or three ZigBee sensors instead of Z-Wave ones, and you've basically paid for the hub.

      Just saying

      Comment


      • #48
        For 50 or so nodes, just add the second Z-Net as a secondary. Us the option "Make this interface a inclusion controller...". It will then ask for the network you want to add it to, so select your primary network.

        Now when you add devices, you can add them to either Z-Net and HS will automatically copy the node info to the other interface.

        In the device properties, Z-Wave tab, you can select which interface you want the device to use. By default its set to "Auto" in which case it will select the one it thinks is the closest by sending a test packet and timing the response.

        If a network gets over 100 nodes I would suggest using 2 networks. But I do know users with over 150 nodes with a single Z-Net network and things are working ok.

        Originally posted by Jh308 View Post
        Before I go and make a huge mistake, would like suggestions on proper configuration.

        I have a long ranch house, with the primary z-net on one end of the house to pick up the devices in the garage. I decided to purchase a second with the plan of installing it on the other end for those devices.. which some times have communication issues and multiple routes seem to be killing the battery life on the devices in between. It was my understanding that you can add a 2nd z-net and use the " make this interface an inclusive controller on another network". I thought this would leave the second z-net on a separate network, but now see that it makes it a secondary controller on the main network.

        I have seen many cases of this not being recommended and to use separate networks, but then I can't let the system choose the best path, which was my plan, add a node to either and optimize the route.

        So a few questions if someone can assist
        Does "make this interface an inclusive controller on another network" work? if not why the option?
        Why does the information for the z-net describe being able to add devices to either and optimizing for best route?
        What is the best method?
        Will the above work for only 50 devices?

        I also noticed that in the install instructions for the z-net, it really doesn't cover if it is the second, only how to move from one to another, it could use some editing.

        I can see if my network grows, how and why I might want a separate network all together, the limit mentioned seems to be 100, doubt I will ever hit 100 in this house. I plan on taking this to the workshop outside, and will put it on another network. but for now, still just worried about the devices in the house and the battery life of the devices passing hop data along (one is a door lock on a door that is never used, it seems to be the mid point and is used by all the devices in the far side of the house)

        Suggestions welcomed... PLEASE..lol
        website | buy now | support | youtube

        Comment


        • #49
          Thanks for the information, that was a huge help and I'm moving forward.

          Comment


          • #50
            I'm off topic here but @Vit - Hubitat sounds like a Smartthings hub modified or custom software of some sort.

            Interesting that Hubitat doesn't list HomeSeer as a manufacturer it works with.

            I have a bunch of zigbee sensors and they are excellent devices. In conjunction with an RPi3 with the deConz raspbee, it makes a great combination connected via the Jowihue plug-in.

            Comment


            • #51
              RPi3 with the deConz raspbee

              If you into Linux and RPi hardware tinkering you can build a combo Z-Wave and Zigbee controller these days and use it on a POE connection putting it anywhere in your home.

              I am in to time here and all of my RPi's utilize an RTC shim which mounts closest to the bottom of the GPIO pins.

              Here today I have replicated my Homeseer 3 ZWave network to my Samsung Smartthings hub and my Leviton / HAI VRCOP serial ZWave controller.

              I am currently using the Homeseer Leviton HAI Omni Plugin (talking to X10, UPB, ZWave and Zigbee) and a Leviton HAI Samsung Smartthings plugin (which speaks ZWave and Zigbee and....) which work fine simultaneously and Homeseer 3 that also talks X10, UPB and ZWave (tinkering with a combo RPi thing).

              I started to document DIYing an RPi Zigbee controller and this post has me changing the DIY RPi Zigbee controller to a combo controller.
              Last edited by Pete; March 12th, 2018, 07:40 PM.
              - Pete

              Auto mator
              Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb- Mono 6.8X
              Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro - Mono 6.8X
              HS4 Pro - V4.0.9.0 - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Kaby Lake CPU - 32Gb - Mono 6.8X
              HS4 Lite -

              X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Smartthings hub, Hubitat Hub, and Home Assistant

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              • #52
                I just passed 100 nodes on one znet in a 6000SF house and things are starting to get sketchy. Slow responses, hs3 needs reboots every now and then, and I still have about 50 more nodes to go.

                If I add another znet on a separate network, can I not have devices from both networks on the same events or scenes? Will I have to switch between networks on mobile apps? I would think everything would end up meshing together in HS3, but the posts earlier in this thread make me think I am wrong.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by djsaad1 View Post
                  I just passed 100 nodes on one znet in a 6000SF house and things are starting to get sketchy. Slow responses, hs3 needs reboots every now and then, and I still have about 50 more nodes to go.

                  If I add another znet on a separate network, can I not have devices from both networks on the same events or scenes? Will I have to switch between networks on mobile apps? I would think everything would end up meshing together in HS3, but the posts earlier in this thread make me think I am wrong.
                  With multiple Z-Wave networks it will be seamless with HomeSeer and with mobile. I have three controllers, each on their own network. The only thing that will be different is that when you issue a "Z-Wave Action from an Event (All lights on/off, set parameter, etc.), you will need to specify the controller. Z-Wave scenes may be a problem, since a network needs to be stipulated. I don't use them so I don't know. Events can control devices on any attached network.
                  Randy Prade
                  Aurora, CO
                  Prades.net

                  PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by rprade View Post
                    With multiple Z-Wave networks it will be seamless with HomeSeer and with mobile. I have three controllers, each on their own network. The only thing that will be different is that when you issue a "Z-Wave Action from an Event (All lights on/off, set parameter, etc.), you will need to specify the controller. Z-Wave scenes may be a problem, since a network needs to be stipulated. I don't use them so I don't know. Events can control devices on any attached network.
                    I have four Z-Nets on four separate networks, with about 250 devices total. It works great! Like you, Randy, I do not use Z-Wave scenes - preferring to do everything with events.

                    One thing that I would recommend is that each Z-Net should be set up DHCP, with the local router set with a DHCP reservation to the MAC address of each Z-Net. I have had problems in the past setting the Z-Nets statically on both the wired and wireless networks, but those problems went away after I used the router to reserve addresses.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by bebaldin View Post
                      One thing that I would recommend is that each Z-Net should be set up DHCP, with the local router set with a DHCP reservation to the MAC address of each Z-Net. I have had problems in the past setting the Z-Nets statically on both the wired and wireless networks, but those problems went away after I used the router to reserve addresses.
                      I agree with this as well. I never have set a static IP, always a reservation. As a result, I have never seen the problems you describe. There are many advantages to using reservations for almost every device, but is has another advantage on the Z-Net. Should you ever have a corrupted SD card, you can plug in a fresh one ant the Z-Net will still grab its reserved IP. I keep a spare imaged SD card that can be plugged into any of my Z-Nets, should one fail.

                      Not to go too far off road... The SD card issue bit me a couple of times in the bad old days of the original Pi B+ models. That is why I keep a spare handy. I went to very high quality SD cards after the second failure and never had another. I also swapped out my Pi B+ boards for Pi 3 boards. According to the forums, the Pi 3 is also less likely to corrupt a SD than the earlier models.

                      Lastly, I intend to swap all three of mine for Pi 3B + boards as soon as the POE Hat is available. I'll have to find or build a new housing to make room for the hat and Z-Wave GPIO.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Click image for larger version

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                      Randy Prade
                      Aurora, CO
                      Prades.net

                      PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by rprade View Post
                        I agree with this as well. I never have set a static IP, always a reservation. As a result, I have never seen the problems you describe. There are many advantages to using reservations for almost every device, but is has another advantage on the Z-Net. Should you ever have a corrupted SD card, you can plug in a fresh one ant the Z-Net will still grab its reserved IP. I keep a spare imaged SD card that can be plugged into any of my Z-Nets, should one fail.

                        Not to go too far off road... The SD card issue bit me a couple of times in the bad old days of the original Pi B+ models. That is why I keep a spare handy. I went to very high quality SD cards after the second failure and never had another. I also swapped out my Pi B+ boards for Pi 3 boards. According to the forums, the Pi 3 is also less likely to corrupt a SD than the earlier models.

                        Lastly, I intend to swap all three of mine for Pi 3B + boards as soon as the POE Hat is available. I'll have to find or build a new housing to make room for the hat and Z-Wave GPIO.

                        [ATTACH]67803[/ATTACH]

                        [ATTACH]67804[/ATTACH]
                        3 of my 4 Z-Nets are PI B+ boards, the fourth is a PI 3. I also use high quality SD cards in mine, and keep spares handy and ready to swap (though I have never had a failure of any of them yet).

                        The three older units have external USB Wireless-N adapters and are hooked to battery packs to allow me to grab them and take them directly to a device I might have problems including (such as a lock). As I have added more Z-Wave Plus devices into my network, this has become much less of a consideration as I have not had problems including anything for quite some time now. I have actually been thinking about moving back to wired connections on all of them, though wireless has not given me any real problems that I can remember.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by rprade View Post
                          Lastly, I intend to swap all three of mine for Pi 3B + boards as soon as the POE Hat is available. I'll have to find or build a new housing to make room for the hat and Z-Wave GPIO.
                          Interesting. I'm not clear how the GPIO board will plug into that though...

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by zwolfpack View Post
                            Interesting. I'm not clear how the GPIO board will plug into that though...
                            I read somewhere that the POE hat has through holes that will accommodate a GPIO header extension. It might have been on Newark. You can see the holes in the photos. The original POE hat had the connector soldered in

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Randy Prade
                            Aurora, CO
                            Prades.net

                            PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              When getting another znet is it fine to migrate some devices over? Our should I exclude and include?

                              Also are you guys getting multiple znets because of distance? Or because you are wanting to limit the devices per znet? Is there a sweet spot on how many devices should be on one znet?

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                              • #60
                                Curious to this as well. I have a 3500 sq ft. house and all works great. Is this something I should plan for in the future?

                                Also....a bit confused Randy. Did you build your own znets?

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