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  • Two Z-NET controllers on same Z-Wave Network

    Greetings,

    I apologize if this has been covered in previous posts, spent a few minutes searching and couldn't find exactly what I am after. I have a large (100+ nodes) Z-Wave network, and I am running the latest release version of Homeseer.

    I would like to run two controllers on the same Z-Wave network for better coverage. From what I understand this is implemented via a SUC/SIS relationship, however, I know almost nothing about SUC/SIS at this point. I presently own two Z-NET controllers.

    I am aware that I can run separate Z-Wave networks, that is not what I want to do. There are limitations and management issues that are unappealing to me. As it stands, I have nodes in my network that are barely reachable, and I am adding a large section on to my house, which will require even more coverage. I doubt my single controller can reach this.

    I recently relocated my controller from being velcroed to the ceiling of a spare room, to being up in my attic. Of course, about 97 of the 100 nodes work. Im going to try to move the controller around in the attic to find a "sweeter" spot, however, this got me to thinking that if I am struggling now, it is only going to get worse with the addition. I am installing Zwave + devices wherever I can, and they seem to perform MUCH better than traditional devices (the devices that are falling off are things like Cooper switches, and GE outdoor plug adapters) Zwave + devices in the approximate same location work fine.

    If someone who understands Z-Wave better than I do could help me out, I would appreciate it. This network is getting large, and I want to manage it in the best way possible. I will likely be adding around 50 more devices in the next year, so expandability is crucial! On another note, How many nodes should a single Z-wave network realistically support?

    Thanks for any help,

    Frank

  • #2
    Here is what I have done since this post, and it seems to work.

    #1 backed up primary controller
    #2 took primary controller offline
    #3 Added secondary controller to homeseer
    #4 started the secondary controller
    #4 restored the backup from the primary to the secondary controller
    #5 started the primary controller

    So far, everything is working, and my spotty coverage areas are now reachable. I am reluctant to do much more other than let it run for a few days, but at this point things are looking very promising
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #3
      If you turn on the address column in the device management page, which network do your devices belong to? Can you post a screen shot of the device page?
      Blair

      HomeSeer: HS3 Pro 3.0.0.548
      Hometroller S6 | Devices: 832 | Events: 211
      Plug-Ins: Z-Wave .252 | HSTouch | RFXCOM | UltraRachio3 | Sonos
      BLLAN | BLPLEX | BLLOCK | NetCAM | Global Cache Pro | Blur-Iris4

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BlairG View Post
        If you turn on the address column in the device management page, which network do your devices belong to? Can you post a screen shot of the device page?
        Both of the controllers have the same HomeID. That should be the only network shown in the address column.
        Randy Prade
        Aurora, CO
        Prades.net

        PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by rprade View Post
          Both of the controllers have the same HomeID. That should be the only network shown in the address column.
          That is indeed the case. All devices are on the same HOME ID. I now have some other interesting options to explore. One thing I noticed right away is that if I try to optimize a node, I now can choose which controller to optimize from.

          Comment


          • #6
            Randy, I realized that after my original post.
            So when the S6 turns on the kitchen light, which Znet tells the switch (both?)
            And when the kitchen light respond's back that it's on, which Znet gets the message back to the S6?
            Blair

            HomeSeer: HS3 Pro 3.0.0.548
            Hometroller S6 | Devices: 832 | Events: 211
            Plug-Ins: Z-Wave .252 | HSTouch | RFXCOM | UltraRachio3 | Sonos
            BLLAN | BLPLEX | BLLOCK | NetCAM | Global Cache Pro | Blur-Iris4

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BlairG View Post
              Randy, I realized that after my original post.
              So when the S6 turns on the kitchen light, which Znet tells the switch (both?)
              And when the kitchen light respond's back that it's on, which Znet gets the message back to the S6?
              Randy Prade
              Aurora, CO
              Prades.net

              PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

              Comment


              • #8
                I was wondering the same thing. I wish there were the equivalent of a "Zwave for Dummies" book. Everything I have learned so far has been from experimentation, or on here. I am still extremely unsure about a lot of things!

                Before the device is re-optimized it appears to be set to the original controller it was added to. You can then choose to optimize form one controller or the other, or set it to auto (based on optimization) Hope that helps clear things up.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Frank
                  I see an issue if you add a new device, you could add it to controller A, then back up controller A and restore to controller B...?

                  It would seem easier to manage with half of your building being on Znet A and the other half on Znet B. Two HOME IDs two networks.
                  Blair

                  HomeSeer: HS3 Pro 3.0.0.548
                  Hometroller S6 | Devices: 832 | Events: 211
                  Plug-Ins: Z-Wave .252 | HSTouch | RFXCOM | UltraRachio3 | Sonos
                  BLLAN | BLPLEX | BLLOCK | NetCAM | Global Cache Pro | Blur-Iris4

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You cannot do what you did, you will have an unreliable network. Each node has to have a unique node id. If there are 2 nodes with the same ID, Z-Wave will be very confused.

                    To add a secondary controller:

                    On the secondary, erase it first to make sure it has a unique home ID.

                    Then, with the primary active, go to the Z-Wave config page for the secondary and select:

                    "Make this interface an inclusion controller (secondary) on another network"

                    That will cause the interface to be added to the primary network and all existing node information will be copied to the secondary.

                    At this point you can add new devices to either the primary or the secondary.

                    From the device properties screen you can select which interface you want HS to use when sending commands. By selecting an interface, associations will also be set up to the proper interface.
                    website | buy now | support | youtube

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Rich;

                      Thanks for clarifying. Reading the above and relying on other information gathered it sounds like there is no way to have true redundancy in controllers such that if one goes down, the network remains fully functional. Is that correct?
                      Randy Prade
                      Aurora, CO
                      Prades.net

                      PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You could create some complicated setup where the duplicate controller has the exact same node info and IP address and is powered off. If you somehow detect that the primary is offline, you power on the backup. HS will constantly try to connect to the primary until it makes the connection. But you cannot leave both of them powered on at the same time.

                        A failure on a Z-NET seems pretty rare. You are more likely to have a failure on the primary HS system.


                        Originally posted by rprade View Post
                        Rich;

                        Thanks for clarifying. Reading the above and relying on other information gathered it sounds like there is no way to have true redundancy in controllers such that if one goes down, the network remains fully functional. Is that correct?
                        website | buy now | support | youtube

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks Rich,
                          From your last sentence... are you required to select which Znet controls every node?

                          [From the device properties screen you can select which interface you want HS to use when sending commands. By selecting an interface, associations will also be set up to the proper interface.]

                          If so is there an advantage to having a secondary controller, as Randy says it is not a true redundant Znet?
                          Blair

                          HomeSeer: HS3 Pro 3.0.0.548
                          Hometroller S6 | Devices: 832 | Events: 211
                          Plug-Ins: Z-Wave .252 | HSTouch | RFXCOM | UltraRachio3 | Sonos
                          BLLAN | BLPLEX | BLLOCK | NetCAM | Global Cache Pro | Blur-Iris4

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rjh View Post
                            You could create some complicated setup where the duplicate controller has the exact same node info and IP address and is powered off. If you somehow detect that the primary is offline, you power on the backup. HS will constantly try to connect to the primary until it makes the connection. But you cannot leave both of them powered on at the same time.



                            A failure on a Z-NET seems pretty rare. You are more likely to have a failure on the primary HS system.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rjh View Post
                              You could create some complicated setup where the duplicate controller has the exact same node info and IP address and is powered off. If you somehow detect that the primary is offline, you power on the backup. HS will constantly try to connect to the primary until it makes the connection. But you cannot leave both of them powered on at the same time.

                              A failure on a Z-NET seems pretty rare. You are more likely to have a failure on the primary HS system.
                              I agree that the failures are indeed rare, though my original (Pi B+) Z-Net did corrupt an SD card twice on me during the first few months. I cloned the SD card and kept a spare with the Z-Net, making recovery a 2 minute ordeal The v2 Z-Nets using a Pi3 board have been very reliable. I still keep a spare SD card just in case, but it hasn't been needed. Since mine are all assigned IP addresses by DHCP reservations, the rescue card will work in any of the three.

                              For me the purpose of this discussion is just to understand. For my purposes I found it easier to put each of my 3 Z-Nets on its own network. I also don't feel I need redundancy. I have automated backups of the Z-Wave networks in case the controller GPIO card fails, a spare Raspberry board and SD card in case they should fail. I think the odds of the GPIO card failing are vanishingly small.
                              Randy Prade
                              Aurora, CO
                              Prades.net

                              PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                              Comment

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