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Figuring out if you have weak radios in devices.

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  • Figuring out if you have weak radios in devices.

    I think I may have one or more bad WDx00 dimmers in that it looks like they have weak radios. From what I understand there isn't a way to determine the received signal strength, which to me is a serious Z-Wave flaw, but that's the way it is.

    It would also be nice it the Z-Wave tab on devices would show the routes in the node information as it does for neighbors so you don't have to go to the node listing to find out.

    Anyway, looking below it seems to me that node 20 has a weak radio. The reason I think that is that it can only see a very few nodes whereas the other nodes in the same room see 4 to 5 times the number of nodes. Look at node 36 which is right next to node 20.

    I'm still wondering why Last Routes will show up which have node numbers that don't exist in the system. We talking larger numbers as high as node 200 or more. Here are a few examples: Last Working Route: 246->173->103->63 and 219->151->196->225 and 155->175->211->105. Do these nonexistent node number mean anything or is it a problem needing to be fixed?

    Examples for all of the above discussions.
    Nodes 20,21,23 and 36 are all in the same room and 56 is in an adjacent room. The Z-NET is located just on the other side of the wall 7' off the floor and about 3 feet from nodes 20 and 36. Nodes 21 and 23 are about 4 feet from nodes 20 and 36. The type of box it's in is also listed.

    Master Bath:
    Node 20 (WD200) (Tripple Gang metal #1)
    Neighbors: 1, 11, 21, 23, 36, 56
    Last Working Route: Direct

    Node 21 (WD100) (Tripple Gang metal #2)
    Neighbors: 1, 3, 7, 8, 11, 17, 19, 20, 23, 27, 32, 33, 36, 38, 39, 40, 41, 45, 47, 55, 56, 58, 59, 63, 64
    Last Working Route: Direct (100K)

    Node 23 (WD100) (Tripple Gang metal #2)
    Neighbors: 1, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 17, 19, 20, 21, 27, 32, 33, 36, 38, 39, 40, 41, 45, 47, 54, 55, 56, 58, 59, 64
    Last Working Route: Direct (100K)

    Node 27 (Jasco Motion Switch) (Single Gang plastic)
    Neighbors: 1, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 17, 19, 20, 21, 23, 32, 35, 36, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 47, 54, 55, 56, 58, 59, 63, 64
    Last Working Route: Direct (100K)

    Node 36 (WD100) (Tripple Gang metal #1)
    Neighbors: 1, 3, 7, 8, 11, 17, 19, 20, 23, 27, 32, 33, 36, 38, 39, 40, 41, 45, 47, 55, 56, 58, 59, 63, 64
    Last Working Route: Direct

    Bathroom:

    Node 11 (WD100) (Tripple Gang metal #1)
    Neighbors: 1, 3, 7, 9, 14, 15, 17, 21, 27, 35, 36, 39, 40, 43, 44, 45, 46, 53, 56, 58, 59, 63, 64
    Last Working Route: Direct

    Node 56 (Jasco Motion Switch) (Triple Gang metal)
    Neighbors: 1, 3, 7, 8, 11, 17, 19, 20, 23, 27, 32, 33, 36, 38, 39, 40, 41, 45, 47, 55, 56, 58, 59, 63, 64
    Last Working Route: Direct (100K)

    Nodes in the Laundry and Garage are show as they usually connect directly although the route will change sometimes going direct and sometimes through another node. I'm assuming that's normal.

    Laundry:

    Node 54 (ZOOZ)
    Neighbors: 1, 7, 8, 9, 17, 21, 23, 27, 32, 36, 39, 40, 42, 45, 47, 55, 56, 58, 59, 64
    Last Working Route: Direct (100K)


    Node 55 (ZOOZ)
    Neighbors: 1, 7, 17, 21, 23, 27, 39, 40, 47, 54, 64
    Last Working Route: Direct (100K)

    Garage:
    Node 59 (Jasco Motion Switch) (Five Gang metal)
    Neighbors: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23, 27, 32, 33, 35, 36, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 47, 51, 53, 54, 56, 58, 63, 64
    Last Working Route: 19 (100K) Sometimes it a Direct Route.


    Node 63 (Jasco Switch) (Single Gang metal)
    Neighbors: 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 21, 22, 27, 33, 40, 41, 42, 44, 45, 47, 53, 56, 58, 59, 64
    Last Working Direct (100K)

    Node 64 (ZOOZ)
    Neighbors: 1, 3, 7, 9, 11, 17, 21, 23, 27, 36, 39, 40, 41, 44, 47, 53, 54, 55, 56, 58, 59, 63
    Last Working Route: Direct (100K)
    HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
    Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
    IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

    Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
    mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

    Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

  • #2
    It looks like I would have to agree, you would have to swap that node with another node elsewhere, and then compare to confirm. I hate replacing switches, one of the most archaic things ever. I'd either have to live with it, or replace with a new node.

    Comment


    • #3
      have you tried to optimize node 20? It might also be interesting to test node 20 using zseer+

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tome10 View Post
        It looks like I would have to agree, you would have to swap that node with another node elsewhere, and then compare to confirm. I hate replacing switches, one of the most archaic things ever. I'd either have to live with it, or replace with a new node.
        It's not bad if it's the exact same model switch however I don't have any WD200 and they are currently out of stock.

        I'll report this to HS so I can get a replacement and hopefully they'll have more WD200 soon and can ship the replacement with the ones I need to order if only to save them some shipping.

        Now if you need to change to a different model switch then it's a royal PITA. Someday someone will come up with a way but it's hard when you have plugins you have to check as well.

        Originally posted by jmaddox View Post
        have you tried to optimize node 20? It might also be interesting to test node 20 using zseer+
        Yes, many times. In fact the last change I made before writing this was to move the Z-NET into the Office on other side of the same wall thus putting it and Node 20 pithing 3 or 4 feet. Up until then Node 20 could never get a direct connection to the Z-NET at all but the other nodes in that room could. In all cases the neighbor count has always been low with maybe a node or two showing up but then disappearing later. Boy, being retired sucks as I don't have access to all the test equipment I used to. If I did I could bring it home and figure it out quickly.

        Don't have a PC, and I haven't loaded a virtual system on my Mac so I can run my copy of Windows 7 and I refuse to buy windows 10, so I can't use Z-SEER+. However other than showing you everything graphically I don't see it giving you anymore information that the Nodes display. It's just a whole lot easier to see.

        As far as I know, and I could be wrong, there is no way to read received signal strength from either the nodes or the Z-NET. If there was then it would be easier to determine if the node is having issues.

        As I also noted I see lots of strange things with node routing. I just don't understand why you can get routes using node numbers that don't exist.

        Side note: anyone else notice that you can do multiple quotes since the new forum went up? If so don't post it here but report it so they can see if it can be fixed. Right now I have to do a lot of cut and paste to due the multiple quotes.

        HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
        Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
        IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

        Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
        mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

        Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

        Comment


        • #5
          I have a few locations where the middle switches in a 3-gang box will see way fewer neighbors then the one on the outside (mine are Leviton's). Any bundles of cable behind the outlet box? HVAC ducts nearby? Perhaps the HS switches have the radio on the left side, so is close to the metal in your outlet box? You can't swap positions with the middle one as a test? What about taking the cover off and pulling the switch out a few inches while leaving it connected. Optimize it like that and see if it sees way more nodes. RSSI levels will tell you that the signal strengths are lower (or not), but won't identify the cause.
          HS 3.0.0.548: 1965 Devices 1146 Events
          Z-Wave 3.0.1.262: 122 Nodes on one Z-Net

          Comment


          • #6
            I can understand that. Depending on where the antenna is located I can see varring signal patterns. I think in this case the difference is so wide I don’t think that the problem. Plus, thinking back when there was a WD100 there it was fine.

            BTW, I’d have to pull the covers on one of my boxes that have HS devices but the one thing, and about the only thing, I liked about Evolve devices is that the antenna was just behind the up/down paddle so none of the electronics or housing gets in the way. If HS devices don’t do that I suggest they make a change.
            HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
            Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
            IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

            Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
            mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

            Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Timon View Post
              BTW, I’d have to pull the covers on one of my boxes that have HS devices but the one thing, and about the only thing, I liked about Evolve devices is that the antenna was just behind the up/down paddle so none of the electronics or housing gets in the way. If HS devices don’t do that I suggest they make a change.
              The antenna on the WD200 and WS200 models I have are all behind the paddle. I have two WD100 which I would have to remove the switch plate to check, but I would be willing to guess that the antenna is behind the paddle on the WD100 and WS100 as well.

              Comment


              • #8
                I figured they likely everyone does it that way on all the Z-Wave devices. If you do anything else then you run into big issues with metal boxes plus the heatsink built into the case.
                HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
                Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
                IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

                Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
                mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

                Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's been awhile since I last looked at this. I'm in the process of getting ready for 15 new WD200s arriving in a few days. I went back and checked all of my existing WD200 ( a wopping 5 of them). Four of the five can only see a few nodes where a WD100 in the same box with them can see many many more. In fact one of them is only about 6 feet from the Z-Net and it can't even see the Z-Net as a neighbor.

                  Here is an example of ones in my office. The office is the closest room to the Z-Net.
                  Code:
                  WD100 (Node 19) - Neighbors: 1, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11, 16, 21, 26, 27, 32, 33, 36, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 48, 56, 58, 59
                  WD100 (Node 32) - Neighbors: 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 17, 19, 20, 21, 23, 26, 27, 33, 35, 36, 38, 39, 40, 41, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 54, 55, 56, 58, 59, 63, 64
                  WD100 (Node 38) - Neighbors: 1, 3, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 16, 17, 19, 21, 23, 26, 27, 32, 39, 43, 44, 45, 46, 48, 56, 58, 59, 63
                  WD200 (Node 46) - Neighbors: 11, 19, 23, 27, 32, 38, 39, 44, 56
                  As you can see Node 46 has much fewer nodes it can see compared to the other nodes in that room. Nodes 19, 38 and 46 are all in the same box. Node 32 is another 8 feet further into the room and away from the Z-Net and it has the most neighbors.

                  The Master Bath is very much the same. It sits next to the office.
                  Code:
                  WD200 (Node 20) - Neighbors: 1, 10, 21, 23, 32, 36, 39, 56
                  WD100 (Node 23) - Neighbors: 1, 3, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 15, 20, 21, 27, 32, 36, 38, 39, 40, 45, 46, 47, 55, 56, 58, 59, 63, 64
                  WD100 (Node 27) - Neighbors: 1, 3, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 19, 21, 23, 26, 32, 33, 36, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 54, 55, 56, 58, 59, 63, 64
                  WD100 (Node 36) - Neighbors: 1, 7, 10, 11, 19, 20, 21, 23, 27, 32, 39, 44, 45, 47, 54, 56, 58, 59, 63, 64
                  Node 20 sees very few other nodes compared to the WD100 in the same area. Nodes 20 and 36 are in the same box and nodes 23 and 27 are in another one 4 feet away along the same basic wall.

                  I won't go into the other two out of the batch that also have few neighbors even though they are within line of sight of the Z-Net and the other devices in the same box have much larger neighbor counts.

                  Once the new WD200s arrive I'll swap out some of these and see what happens. If the new WD200 show a lot more neighbors then I think that leans toward the older WD200 are having issues and I'll ask for them to be replaced. If they are the same I really like to understand why they are so different from the WD100.

                  BTW, all of my existing WD200 were purchased back in May of last year. I'm wondering if anyone else has had issues with devices purchased around that time as it's always possible there were some bad one in that batch?
                  HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
                  Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
                  IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

                  Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
                  mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

                  Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, I installed several of the new batch of WD200 dimmers and I'm getting a mixed results when it comes to coverage. Here is an example where I have 4 devices in a single box so they are all side by side. There are 3 brand new WD200 and one older WD100. They are spaced as follows: Nodes 77-76-51-75 (WD200-WD200-WD100-WD200). Even the old Evolve dimmers had more neighbors that these WD200 do.

                    Code:
                    WD200 (Node 77) - Neighbors: 2, 26, 35, 43, 49, 51, 69, 75, 76
                    WD200 (Node 76) - Neighbors: 4, 26, 35, 43, 49, 51, 69, 75, 77
                    WD100 (Node 49) - Neighbors: 1, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 17, 19, 20, 21, 23, 26, 27, 33, 35, 36, 38, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 54, 55, 56, 58, 59, 63, 64, 71, 75, 76, 77
                    WD200 (Node 75) - Neighbors: 2, 26, 35, 43, 49, 51, 69, 75, 76
                    So I understand radio propagation but in this case it makes no sense that there should be such a HUGE difference in the signal strength that would account for the three WD200 showing a very small number of neighbors and the one WD100 in the same group seeing almost four times the number of neighbors. The four nodes also directly face toward the Z-NET so it should be a clear path.

                    Is it possible when these were being tested the transmit power wasn't set back to the legal max for the US ant the end of the test? I only bring this up since i do have one WD200 that can access a very large number of nodes and it's within sight of the three WD200 in the above lists but they can't see each other. Is there a way to set a parameter to set the transmit power to it max legal value?

                    Also, could someone please explain to me exactly what the this route path means? "Last Working Route: 21->45 (100K)" means? I know the 100K is the speed of the route. Does it mean that there are four hope starting with Node 77 then to Node 21 then to Node 45 then finally to Z-NET node 1? BTW, in the past I've actually seen last working routes with node numbers that don't even exist but none of those lately.

                    That route makes no sense to me as it travels from the back of the house to the front of the house then back to the middle of the house to the Z-NET. I think it should have just relayed via node 49 which we know has a direct path to the Z-NET.

                    HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
                    Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
                    IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

                    Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
                    mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

                    Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

                    Comment

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