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Group Conditions

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    Group Conditions

    This post is a revision of an earlier post as some things have been discovered since it was initially covered. The original thread is here.

    This Condition is not well documented and has some demonstrable quirks, but can be very useful. Everything in this post has been verified by testing. Now for the concept. First we will build a simple event to turn lights On with motion

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    This simple event will turn the lights on whenever there is motion.

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    We want to restrict it to when there is low light and only when the house is occupied, so we add a pair of conditions to restrict the actions.

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    After you have expanded the Group Options section you can add the conditions you want to selectively apply to events within this group. You will notice it says "(Choose a Trigger or Condition)", this is a misstatement, your only choice will be among conditions. Using a trigger as a condition would in almost every case cause an event to fail.

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    Now that we have established a pair of conditions that will likely apply to all motion controlled lighting, we can add them to the group. Click on the triangle above to expand Group Conditions and add the same two Conditions. The first will begin with "IF" but do not let that confuse you, it is still a Condition. The second will begin with AND IF.

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    Now that we have duplicated the conditions we can collapse Group Conditions. You will see a exclamation point in a triangle. If you hover over it it will remind yo that the Group Conditions are not assigned to any Event.

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    We need to delete the two Conditions from the Event and add a single Condition "The Group Conditions Are..." to the Event

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    Then you are presented with two options.

    Quirk #1: The Group Conditions are all TRUE is the only choice that works. The Group Conditions are all FALSE does not work as you would expect. The way it actually functions is IF ANY OF THE GROUP CONDITIONS ARE FALSE. Keep this in mind and the choice can be useful.

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    Here we will choose The Group Conditions are all TRUE. Now the Event will only run when the Low Light Device is On and the Occupancy Device Is Home. You will also note that there is now a green checkmark beside Group Conditions are applied to at least one Event.

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    Here are the takeaways:
    • Group Conditions must be applied to each Event individually. They are NOT applied to an Event unless specifically added as a Condition. They will not apply to ANY Event that does not include them.
    • Each group you define within your events can have different group conditions and each event within a group can have the conditions selectively evaluated and applied.
    • An advantage to Group Conditions is that you can make a change to the group conditions and affect a large number of events.
    • If the list of conditions to be applied is two or more and will apply to a number of Events, Group Conditions can save some time and may remove clutter from your events. For a single Condition it is just as easy to apply it to each Event, rather than making it a Group Condition
    • The choice of "The Group Conditions are all TRUE" works exactly as it should. If ALL Group Conditions are TRUE, the Condition is TRUE. If ANY of the Group Conditions are FALSE the Condition is FALSE
    • The choice of "The Group Conditions are all FALSE" does not work as it reads. If ALL Group Conditions are TRUE, the Condition is FALSE, but if ANY of the Group Conditions are FALSE, the Condition is TRUE. It should read "IF any Group Condition is FALSE...". If you remember how it actually works there are good use cases for the choice.

    Quirk #2: It is possible to change a Group Condition to OR IF. Choosing this is not always intuitive, but it can be done. It can be done only on a single condition, by first adding it as an AND IF and changing it to OR IF. It will only work for One of the Conditions. This behavior is so inconsistent that it is not recommended and it can be accomplished by other means, but it will be explained for those who want to try it.

    First we will delete the Occupancy Condition and replace it with "The Time is Nighttime"

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Event9.PNG Views:	1 Size:	15.4 KB ID:	1271267Then we will expand the second Condition and change it to OR IF

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    The two Conditions will now be separated by a bit of blank space

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    Now the Event will Evaluate the Group Conditions individually and if either is TRUE the Event will run. In this case the lights will come on with motion if it is EITHER Low Light or Nighttime. While this might be useful, it is functionally equivalent to the following. In either case the lights will be turned On with motion when there is Low Light or if it is Nighttime.

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    Quirk #3: 3rd party (plug-in) Conditions will not work as Group Conditions. While they may be included in the dropdown of choices, they may not populate and even if they do, they probably will not work. For this reason, stick to native HomeSeer Conditions.

    Thanks for this post, Randy. It was very timely since I was trying to figure out why my group conditions had no effect. They should work now.

    - Robert


      I just wanted to thank you for the excellent work you've done on this topic. I must say that the explanations are very good and well structured, which makes it easier to understand. I have learned a lot from your explanations and I honestly think it should be a must read for everyone.