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Event Condition... Check if a Delayed Device Action exists?

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    Event Condition... Check if a Delayed Device Action exists?

    I have a need for a Condition that Checks to see if a Delayed Device Action exists. Is there a way to do this?

    I have several use cases (lights, house modes, etc) but here's my most important one...

    I have several events that check the House Mode - some when the mode changes manually, some check every 10 minutes :: is the alarm set, are specific notifications devices/events enabled, etc
    if the House Mode is not set the way it should be... they kick-off a Delayed Action to set the event in 5 or 10 minutes. BUT, I dont want to set, or reset, the delayed action if it is already set.

    thx for the advice!

    #2
    You can delete delayed events and device actions, so the typical approach is to have an action that deletes existing delayed actions, if there are any, then an action to create a new delayed action.
    Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
    HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

    HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
      You can delete delayed events and device actions, so the typical approach is to have an action that deletes existing delayed actions, if there are any, then an action to create a new delayed action.
      ... this is exactly what I Dont Want. I do not want to reset the the delayed action.

      I'll ask Spud if he the API allows for Easy Trigger to do it. I'm not surprised Homeseer cannot do it... 90% of what we need to even semi-advanced automation requires a plugins or manual coding in HS3. HS4 looks like it will be no better.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Ltek View Post
        I have a need for a Condition that Checks to see if a Delayed Device Action exists. Is there a way to do this?

        I have several use cases (lights, house modes, etc) but here's my most important one...

        I have several events that check the House Mode - some when the mode changes manually, some check every 10 minutes :: is the alarm set, are specific notifications devices/events enabled, etc
        if the House Mode is not set the way it should be... they kick-off a Delayed Action to set the event in 5 or 10 minutes. BUT, I dont want to set, or reset, the delayed action if it is already set.

        thx for the advice!
        I cannot think of any way to determine if a Delayed Device Action exists. You could use a Virtual Device such as "Alarm Pending" which is set along with another Event that looks for "Alarm Pending" to have been On for 5-10 minutes.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by rprade View Post
          I cannot think of any way to determine if a Delayed Device Action exists. You could use a Virtual Device such as "Alarm Pending" which is set along with another Event that looks for "Alarm Pending" to have been On for 5-10 minutes.
          Just posted a feature request to Spud's forum. Creating a vDevice, while it will work that way, is just too much, too many to keep track of. Other systems have much better ways to handle this with on-the-fly constant (think of it as a temporary vDevice). But really, delays Device Actions are fine as long as we can 'access' them (e.g. see they exist). Just annoyed this might require another work-around / hack... 50% of my HS3 events are workarounds already (vDevices, scripting, etc).

          Comment


            #6
            Sorry you find your system to be such a kludge. 100% of my Events work as planned. Your definition of a workaround, might be my definition of methodology. When a method doesn't do what I want, I find another method and move on to the next challenge. There is nothing I have wanted HomeSeer to accomplish, that I haven't achieved quickly and reliably - once I have the failings of my logic fleshed out.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by rprade View Post
              Sorry you find your system to be such a kludge. 100% of my Events work as planned. Your definition of a workaround, might be my definition of methodology. When a method doesn't do what I want, I find another method and move on to the next challenge. There is nothing I have wanted HomeSeer to accomplish, that I haven't achieved quickly and reliably - once I have the failings of my logic fleshed out.
              If you have a "method" that will EASILY work around this gap I'm all ears...

              Timers -- (I'm no expert in them) but looks like it would be VERY tedious to use in multiple events (approx 20) and require a lot of additional event work.

              Global Variables -- would require one variable for every time a Delayed Device Action was set, but prob easier than Timers?

              BTW, you must enjoy the challenge of finding a way to workaround HS3's gaps. I dont like "find" ways to make things work when the point of apps is to make things easy to use. Over 50% of the time I'm working around HS3s lack of If-Then-Else and poor and/or non-existent Device handling/filter/etc. I have 335 active, and used, events... I'd need around 150 (less than half) if we had If-Then-Else. HS cant do much of any complexity without multiple plugins (EasyTrigger, Device History, JowiHue, SDH-Health, BLLAN, BLLOCK, Big5, and several other plugins) unless you want to code it all manually in script... at that point might as well get Home Assistant and/or Node-Red for free.

              Comment


                #8
                Not a challenge at all. All my life I have wished for better tools, but always managed to build things with the tools I have. I am pragmatic by nature.

                That said, i really don't know exactly what you want to do, but the gist of what you wrote in the OP (to kick-off a Delayed Action to set the event in 5 or 10 minutes.") would be served by a virtual device

                Click image for larger version  Name:	capture.png Views:	0 Size:	8.7 KB ID:	1399752

                and a single event

                Click image for larger version  Name:	capture1.png Views:	0 Size:	31.0 KB ID:	1399753

                Then if you wanted a delayed action to set the alarm, you would turn it on. Subsequent setting of the device would not start the clock over, so the Event would run 10 minutes after the virtual device was first turned on. If you want to stop it from arming turn it Off. If you want to restart the timer, turn it Off then On.

                It took me almost 3 times as long to put together this post as it did to create the Virtual Device and Event.

                It is not a workaround, it is a method.

                Going forward, I will again avoid responding to your posts. Invariably when I try to help you, I am met with arguments and a plethora of reasons HomeSeer is inferior to most other products out there. For example, the post I am replying to is almost end-to-end negative toward HomeSeer. You have implied that I am a cheerleader for HomeSeer in the past, that simply is not true. I spend a lot of time contributing to this community and consider many members to be my virtual friends. I am happy with HomeSeer and I like the product. While it certainly has some bugs and some foibles, it is stable and reliable. It has been years since the Software has failed to run as configured in production at my house. The last function affecting bug I encountered was in 2014 or 2015. It works well for me without conventional If, Then, Else logic, because that is available through a different method of nested Events, I see each nested Event as a highly configurable "Else". That is the tool I have and the tool I use. I see absolutely no reason to complain about what is missing, but I do offer suggestions to Rich frequently for things that would improve the software. Some of them have been incorporated.

                I finally moved to HS4 Friday morning and it also is working perfectly, with more bugs and foibles than HS3, but it still works reliably (so far) nonetheless.

                I would believe that if there was actually a better product than HomeSeer, you would have moved on.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by rprade View Post
                  Not a challenge at all. All my life I have wished for better tools, but always managed to build things with the tools I have. I am pragmatic by nature.

                  That said, i really don't know exactly what you want to do, but the gist of what you wrote in the OP (to kick-off a Delayed Action to set the event in 5 or 10 minutes.") would be served by a virtual device

                  Click image for larger version Name:	capture.png Views:	0 Size:	8.7 KB ID:	1399752

                  and a single event

                  Click image for larger version Name:	capture1.png Views:	0 Size:	31.0 KB ID:	1399753

                  Then if you wanted a delayed action to set the alarm, you would turn it on. Subsequent setting of the device would not start the clock over, so the Event would run 10 minutes after the virtual device was first turned on. If you want to stop it from arming turn it Off. If you want to restart the timer, turn it Off then On.

                  It took me almost 3 times as long to put together this post as it did to create the Virtual Device and Event.

                  It is not a workaround, it is a method.
                  Admittedly, this is one way I did not think of. I still consider it a work around but yes, it will work. A much cleaner, and far less effort, method would be to simply be able to check the status of a Delayed Device Action. You may not agree, but if the user is provided a 'thing' (in the app) we should be able to check on the 'thing' ... whatever that may be. It would be a single step, without requiring any other vDevices. I bet using Delayed Device Actions are in >=98% of HS3 advanced users' systems. I'm glad you are happy with all the 'methods' you've devised, and you have DEFINITELY helped a lot of people with them, myself included. I dont intent to offend you, but while I may complain more than you like, you (just as much) defend the lack of HS3 functionality and tell me I'm just 'not doing it right' (in a round about way). In reality ... HS3 is not as difficult as I say and not as perfect as you say. ;-)

                  really though... thank you for the suggestion, I will use it.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Ltek View Post
                    Admittedly, this is one way I did not think of. I still consider it a work around but yes, it will work. A much cleaner, and far less effort, method would be to simply be able to check the status of a Delayed Device Action.
                    So an airplane is a work around because transporter technology does not work yet?

                    Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                    HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                    HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
                      So an airplane is a work around because transporter technology does not work yet?
                      ... not an accurate analogy.

                      Dictionary definition of Workaround = "a method for overcoming a problem or limitation in a program or system."

                      Transporter tech is not possible with known physics so not a 'problem or limitation' that can be fixed - thus, not a workaround.

                      HST should provide us access/visibility Delayed Device Actions. They do not, thus a workaround is required. The method using vDevices as a timers is a workaround, and using a method that is not what's its intended purpose is... but, yes works pretty well. Just more work, more device clutter, not things that can go wrong and need to be maintained.

                      I dont mind using workarounds 10-15% of the time but not sure why you'all so happy about doing them constantly. HST's "as designed" requires me to use workarounds in over 50% of my events -- more than doubling the work to create and maintain (updates, changes/tweaks, etc). Tons of HS3 gaps and limitations based on HST's "Design Choices".

                      I work with developers every day... there are always compromises but that should be in the small minority.

                      I get it, it is what it is... HST will likely never change or improve. The saving grace for Homeseer is the amazing community of users and plugin developers... without them ;-)




                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ltek View Post
                        ... not an accurate analogy.
                        Sorry, I admit I was exaggerating a bit.

                        I dont mind using workarounds 10-15% of the time but not sure why you'all so happy about doing them constantly. HST's "as designed" requires me to use workarounds in over 50% of my events -- more than doubling the work to create and maintain (updates, changes/tweaks, etc). Tons of HS3 gaps and limitations based on HST's "Design Choices".
                        I just find it more rewarding to solve problems than to complain about them.
                        Heck, that's what I find to be the most fun!
                        (HS makes it possible for me to do things that I cannot do any other way. It's not perfect, but like getting old, it's better than the alternative.)
                        Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                        HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                        HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Ltek View Post

                          Dictionary definition of Workaround = "a method for overcoming a problem or limitation in a program or system
                          This is entirely too tedious. It is only a different method than you desire. It is not a limitation in the program, it is your desire to have it your way. Some HA solutions don’t offer delayed Events or a Delayed Device Actions. Your position is that it is incomplete because you cannot monitor what you have created within an Event. I would argue that you desire a function beyond the scope of what was designed, instead of finding a method that will fit your personal requirements. You argue that 1) creating a Delayed Device Action then 2) checking that one exists is “much cleaner, and far less effort’ than 1) controlling a Virtual Device and 2) checking it’s status. I really don’t get it. I built a solution for your perceived problem in a couple of minutes, yet you are still complaining about HomeSeer’s inadequacies, instead of moving on to solve the next problem to solve. Methinks you prefer to complain rather than to solve.

                          I’m out. I’ll avoid these discussions again for a while.

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