Run On Fan

[smokeycoles]

Hello I am looking for someone to show me the best way to implement a fan run-on event? Which I think can be done without timers and just using conditions? Which I can mimic the best practice. Ideally with pictures.

I have a Fibaro 2x switching module wired to a two button switch.
Switch 1: Light
Switch 2: Extractor Fan.


So my logic for 5 events would be:

If the bathroom light is switched on.
Switch on the extractor fan.

If the light is switched off and the light has been on for <10mins.
Switch off the extractor fan.

If the light is switched off and the lights has been on for >10mins.
Extractor fan will run on 30mins.

If the fan is switched on without the light and is run for more than 1 1/2 hours then switch off fan.

If the fan has been running for 1hour but has not seen motion on bathroom PIR within 1 hour - (so this may have been 11minutes in the bathroom and it switches the fan off at 1hour 11mins)

[waynehead99]

You can do what you want with the easy trigger plugin or delayed events, however... I would recommend using timers. It's more work up front, but its more reliable and robust. Delayed actions can't be reset as easily as a timer and will fire whether you like it or not .

With timers you have control over reseting the timer, which is key, especially when dealing with motion sensors. No motion, restart timer (restart causes it to start again at 0). Once timer reaches x minutes, run event (shut things down, or whatever you need). If motion is detected within the timer threshold... stop timer.

This makes absolutely sure that if you have you want a delay of lets say 10 minutes after no motion, that you truly do get that.

[Eman]

Hello I am looking for someone to show me the best way to implement a fan run-on event? Which I think can be done without timers and just using conditions? Which I can mimic the best practice. Ideally with pictures.

I have a Fibaro 2x switching module wired to a two button switch.
Switch 1: Light
Switch 2: Extractor Fan.


So my logic for 5 events would be:

If the bathroom light is switched on.
Switch on the extractor fan.

If the light is switched off and the light has been on for <10mins.
Switch off the extractor fan.

If the light is switched off and the lights has been on for >10mins.
Extractor fan will run on 30mins.

If the fan is switched on without the light and is run for more than 1 1/2 hours then switch off fan.

If the fan has been running for 1hour but has not seen motion on bathroom PIR within 1 hour - (so this may have been 11minutes in the bathroom and it switches the fan off at 1hour 11mins)

Without me going in much too deep in so soon, have exploited the group conditions and group actions combined with the Easy Trigger plugin?
Your event seems involve alot of timed settings. So what I mean is try to make a group of events based on the info. you stated above. May be cumbersome but I think doable. They could be even 2 groups but achieve what you want.
Below is an example of 2 events in a group to control a light automatically if it were triggered by other events and based on time.
I don't want to mention the Scene Manager plugin yet but I think it's worth a second look?
Or you may have to it with a script.


Eman.

[sirmeili]

You can do what you want with the easy trigger plugin or delayed events, however... I would recommend using timers. It's more work up front, but its more reliable and robust. Delayed actions can't be reset as easily as a timer and will fire whether you like it or not .
.

(emphasis added by me).

You can remove a delayed device action, and it's quite easy. For my "timed" events that rely on motion, instead of using timers, I used delayed device actions. So, in your case where you sense motion and reset the time, I merely remove the delayed device action for the device. If you are only trying to control 1 device this way, I don't find it any harder or easier. If you are doing a group of devices, you could do a "Delayed event" as well and just have manually triggered event and delay that. I've attached an image of my hallway lights event for at night (It is different for the day time, so I limited what I'm showing to just night for simplicity sake).

Note that I could have combined the first and 3rd event (kill delayed action, then turn on light, even if it's already one), but I was trying to limit z-wave traffic on my network so I only send the on/off command if I have to.

That said, I think it comes down to personal preference. I prefer the delayed actions/events, but @waynehead99 prefers timers. Both will do the job quite nicely and can end up with similar if not the same exact outcome.

One thing I can think of that timers will let you do is "pause" them, which could be helpful in some scenarios. "Turn The Boy's TV off after being on for 1 hour, but not continuously for 1 hour". With this, I could limit how long they have their TV ON (and something I might actually do now that think of it!)

[sirmeili]

So my logic for 5 events would be:

If the bathroom light is switched on.
Switch on the extractor fan.

I thinks one is pretty easy and is a straightforward event. I won't really comment on it too much

If the light is switched off and the light has been on for <10mins.
Switch off the extractor fan.

I think for this one you will have to depend on a timer. The reason I say this is because there is not a condition for determining if a device has been on for LESS than a specified amount of time (though I wish they would add one!). The only way I can think of doing this is via a timer, or perhaps a script.

If the light is switched off and the lights has been on for >10mins.
Extractor fan will run on 30mins.

I would likely just use the timer from above for this one as well.

If the fan is switched on without the light and is run for more than 1 1/2 hours then switch off fan.

Pretty easy to do. The trigger is "If Fan has been on for exactly X minutes, then turn off fan". I sometimes prefer to use the "Has been on for more than" trigger, but notice that it will trigger about once every second until you turn it off. I combat this by ONLY using this on events where I would make the trigger false (if it is looking for a light that is on for X minutes, I turn the light off), and I used the advanced settings for the event to make it not fire again for a period of time. I normally just use 1 minute.

The above would work because you force it to turn off depending on the light beging turned on, so this event should only fire IF the light was never turned on (timer was never started). However, you could do this to be sure if you wanted to (my personal preference instead of a timer):

If the extractor changes and becomes "On" AND the bathroom light is "off", then set device extractor fan to off after a delay of 1 hour and 30 minutes (see my images in my previous post).

This will create a delayed device action. Of course, if you used a timer above, you could just reuse that time for this as well. Especially if you use it to count down instead of up.

If the fan has been running for 1hour but has not seen motion on bathroom PIR within 1 hour - (so this may have been 11minutes in the bathroom and it switches the fan off at 1hour 11mins)

So for this I might do this:

If bathroom PIR has been "No motion" for 1 hour
AND extractor fan is ON
AND bathroom light is off <--- added by me, but you could remove it
Then
Turn extractor fan off

Just my $.02

[Eman]

The Wait Option

The wait sometime function from the main event menu is very powerful . If you infuse wait periods within the event. It just works if think of the events in simple terms. Say Light ON (could be night or day) Then wait some time (any value) Then Light Off. I say this because in general not all lights give status feedback (I for one dispute this). So if you look at my X10 lamp above, I let the system do the the trick. That said if you had a lux and or with motion sensor in the mix then you would set the event differently as par choice but just assume the light was off when turned it on.


Eman.

[waynehead99]

That said, I think it comes down to personal preference. I prefer the delayed actions/events, but @waynehead99 prefers timers. Both will do the job quite nicely and can end up with similar if not the same exact outcome.

I can agree with this. I started with timers and totally forgot about the delayed event actions. I was more thinking the "wait" function inside an event. I see some people trying to use this to delay a light turning off and it doesn't work properly if you want the light controlled by motion properly.

The one thing I like about timers is in certain spots of the house, I have multiple motion sensors that keep the lights on in multiple areas (family room that we don't normally hang out in, but is our access to the upstairs). I use one timer with multiple sensors to control the delay on the lights in not only that room, but also the stairs and the lights upstairs on the landing. This made it very simple to add a delay using one timer for multiple lights and sensors. I just create one event that states when timer reaches 1 minute, turn off all the lights, vs having to create separate events for all the lights. Again, you could probably do this with delayed actions, but my brain went with understanding timers better than delayed events.

[Eman]

I can agree with this. I started with timers and totally forgot about the delayed event actions. I was more thinking the "wait" function inside an event. I see some people trying to use this to delay a light turning off and it doesn't work properly if you want the light controlled by motion properly.

The one thing I like about timers is in certain spots of the house, I have multiple motion sensors that keep the lights on in multiple areas (family room that we don't normally hang out in, but is our access to the upstairs). I use one timer with multiple sensors to control the delay on the lights in not only that room, but also the stairs and the lights upstairs on the landing. This made it very simple to add a delay using one timer for multiple lights and sensors. I just create one event that states when timer reaches 1 minute, turn off all the lights, vs having to create separate events for all the lights. Again, you could probably do this with delayed actions, but my brain went with understanding timers better than delayed events.

The wait function works best on direct event trigger. Say if you had a group of lights a,b,c..... then they can be turned on /off by one event i.e another way of skinning the same cat! Because like I said the system may not know if light is on or off (my perception).

Eman.

[Eman]

Complex and Nested events

Though this :http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=173221 may not the answer to your particular question, it should serve as a starting point in creating complex triggers! It's the best I have seer so far.
Bookmarked!


Eman.

[smokeycoles]

To be verified by the pros

Guys
Thank you so much for the comments;
these have helped me a lot and really improved my understanding (I hope).


I followed your advice and used a combination of timers, delayed events, and grouping suggestions from you all.

I have a note in the below screenshot which could be answered if you will.
And just to check my re-runs so the "zwave traffic" are only done 60 or 90 times and not 3600 or 5400 times.

Please could you also verify and see if I have made any potential mistake?



Requirements

If the bathroom light is switched on. Switch on the extractor fan.

If the light is switched off and the light has been on for <10mins.
Switch off the extractor fan.

If the light is switched off and the lights has been on for >10mins.
Extractor fan will run on 30mins.

If the fan is switched on without the light and is run for more than 1 1/2 hours then switch off fan.

If the fan has been running for 1hour but has not seen motion on bathroom PIR within 1 hour - (so this may have been 11minutes in the bathroom and it switches the fan off at 1hour 11mins)

.

[Eman]

Guys
Thank you so much for the comments;
these have helped me a lot and really improved my understanding (I hope).


I followed your advice and used a combination of timers, delayed events, and grouping suggestions from you all.

I have a note in the below screenshot which could be answered if you will.
And just to check my re-runs so the "zwave traffic" are only done 60 or 90 times and not 3600 or 5400 times.

Please could you also verify and see if I have made any potential mistake?



Requirements

If the bathroom light is switched on. Switch on the extractor fan.

If the light is switched off and the light has been on for <10mins.
Switch off the extractor fan.

If the light is switched off and the lights has been on for >10mins.
Extractor fan will run on 30mins.

If the fan is switched on without the light and is run for more than 1 1/2 hours then switch off fan.

If the fan has been running for 1hour but has not seen motion on bathroom PIR within 1 hour - (so this may have been 11minutes in the bathroom and it switches the fan off at 1hour 11mins)

.

Hi smokeycoles,

I just feel abit confused. I think you can't start your events with time periods (my question is, if you look at the begining of your events and onwards. Since when?)
The best help with complex events contact rprade. He is the godfather of the event clinic. Just look what he did here :http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=173221
It's easier to create events triggering your device first then you call them up and inserting the wait periods there after. I don't know if I have said it the wright way but I think Randy should chime in


Eman.

[smokeycoles]

Ok retry no.2

The first attempt failed awfully.

So this is my 2nd attempt, which is more timer base.

If any one would like to try and check it over?

.

[smokeycoles]

Fan Timeout (1Hr No Motion) does not work.

[randy]

I see a couple of things that could be problems, but I think this might be a simpler approach:

Requirements

If the bathroom light is switched on. Switch on the extractor fan.

This one runs any time the light is turned on. It starts the timer (no need to set it to 0 because a Start always Restarts the timer at 0. Resume is used to start the timer without resetting it. Then it removes any other delayed actions that might be in the queue for the fan, either from this event or others. This makes sure it will not turn off prematurely. Then turn the fan on.

If the light is switched off and the light has been on for <10mins. Switch off the extractor fan.

This one and the next one are triggered when the light is turned off and look at the light timer. If the light timer is less than 10 minutes it turns the fan off without a delay. A quick note about timers, they actually have precision out to microseconds, so you can use less than 10 minutes for one and more than 10 minutes for another. They can never both be true.

If the light is switched off and the lights has been on for >10mins. Extractor fan will run on 30mins.

Just like the above event, this is triggered by the light turning off, but the light has been on for more than 10 minutes. This one removes any previous delayed device actions for the fan, then sets it to turn off after 30 minutes. It is always a best practice to remove any previous delayed device actions before creating a new one. Delayed device actions are actually new events with a specific time as a trigger, if you create one, then create another, they are both in a queue and will both run at their scheduled time. If you set one for 30 minutes 15 minutes ago and another one for 30 minutes from now, the fan will go off in 15 minutes.



In both of the above events, you could also stop and reset the light timer, but there is really no need, unless you use the timer in any other events. It is not necessary for this series since both events look at the light being turned off, the next time it is turned on it will restart the timer at 0.

If the fan is switched on without the light and is run for more than 1 1/2 hours then switch off fan.

For this one, I use the built in timers for devices. If the fan has been on for at least 90 minutes and the light has been off for at least 90 minutes, the fan is turned off. This event is dependent upon the fan being turned off to keep it from retriggering, so to protect against any Z-Wave latency, it is set to Cannot Re-Run For: 1 minute.

If the fan has been running for 1hour but has not seen motion on bathroom PIR within 1 hour - (so this may have been 11minutes in the bathroom and it switches the fan off at 1hour 11mins)

Again, rather than using timers, this event looks at the built in timers for devices. If the fan has been on for more than an hour and there has been no motion for more than an hour, it turns the fan off. As above, it is set to Cannot Re-Run For: 1 minute.



One more note about using HomeSeer's built in timers - when a device is "set" but the value is not changed, there is a chance the Last Change time could be set as well. For any devices where the built in timers are used, in this case, the fan, the light and the motion detector all need to have the box "Do not update device last change time if device value does not change:" checked so that the above events will work reliably.

[smokeycoles]

Randy

Just wanted to pass on my thank you, you methods worked flawlessly and I learnt a good deal from this.

I have even adapted some of my other actions for other things to clean them up.

Thank you for your help.