HS3 to HS2 to HS1 Interplay

[Michael McSharry]

In a polling thread it was mentioned that Machine to Machine communications with different HS clients would be a means to take advantage or existing plugins within HS2 and still use HS3 even when those plugins are not being ported to HS3.

mcsXap exists for HS1 and HS2 and was working with the Dec'2012 version of HS3. This provides a mechanism to communicate at the device level which I believe is what most do use in HS.

As an example, let us assume ACRF plugin will not be ported to HS3 or at least not initially, but it is an important part of your existing setup. ACRF populates HS2 devices based upon received RF sensor information.

With mcsXap any or all of the ACRF virtual devices can be mapped onto the LAN via xAP so that any change in the device made by ACRF will be transmitted over the LAN where any other xAP-cognizant software or hardware can recognize the deivce change. In the case of HS3 these ACRF devices that are now on the LAN via xAP will be seen by HS3 plugin mcsXap and equivalent devices will be updatd on HS3 to reflect the changes that have been made by ACRF to HS2 devices.

The same can be done in the other direction where you want HS3 to affect an output device that is the Direct IO Connector plugin in HS2.

The communication model provides for sharing of DeviceStatus, DeviceValue and DeviceString which are the things most users interact. DeviceStatus is no longer used in HS3 and some mapping logic was used in HS3 version of mcsXap due to the depreciation of DeviceStatus in HS3.

xAP protocol is extensible and other other information beyond just these three device properties could be communicated in a similiar manner. A schema that is more closely aligns with Zwave is possible or one that supports music transport. There are definitions for these in xAP but mcsXap has only implemented the generic model that was exposed by HS with string/value/status.

mcsXap for HS1 and HS2 also provided event sharing as part of exposing most of the HS internals. For HS3 I did not port that part of mcsXap. I do not think I ported the capabilty to remotely execute the API defined by HS for scripting, but that also was not something that had seen much use. There are a few special schema that likely got ported such as X10, Weather Report and the HS Log. In the HS log example, it will allow the HS2 log to be merged with the HS3 log and viewed via normal mechanism within HS3. The reverse could also be done if one wanted to retain HS2 as the primary place where logs are maintained.

[Steve Q]

HS3 to HS2 to HS1 Interplay

This sounds great. I am thinking about running HS3 on a new low power computer. Using XAP to communicate between my existing setup and HS3 would really make it much easier to make the transition. I use the W800/ACRF extensively. The ability to transfer that device information from HS2 to HS3 would be outstanding!

Will this capability be built-in to xAP for HS3, or will a special "XAP HS2 to HS3" plugin be required?

Steve Q


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Uncle Michael]

Using XAP to communicate between my existing setup and HS3 would really make it much easier to make the transition.

I agree. xAP could be an invaluable tool to help people with complex HS2 installations make the transition to HS3 more efficiently and with far less pain than doing it "cold turkey."

This might even be the incentive I need to take the time to understand how xAP really works - and how to use it effectively.

[Rotech]

This might even be the incentive I need to take the time to understand how xAP really works - and how to use it effectively.

Sounds like a great tool to migrate from H2 to HS3.... But in my case I have no idea what a xAP mean or do????

[Bill Brower]

Sounds like a great tool to migrate from H2 to HS3.... But in my case I have no idea what a xAP mean or do????

Search the board.

[Uncle Michael]

Sounds like a great tool to migrate from H2 to HS3.... But in my case I have no idea what a xAP mean or do????

I suspect when it comes right down to it, many of us (most?) will need some hand holding to get started actually using xAP. Even though I use it to connect HS to mcsSprinklers, I don't really understand how it works, and I'm not at all confident that I could successfully use it to connect HS2 to HS3 without a good deal of trial and error or - preferably - some pretty specific examples and tutorials. Maybe similar to an HSTouch tutorial or how-to.

[Pete]

Here I utilize (and have for many years) the W800 / X10 Palm pad to manually test zones, manifold and sprinkler heads et al on my sprinkler system. It has evolved much now with water pressure sensor (legacy), flow meters (using 1-wire) and getting ready now for an electronic water shutoff (still manual).

Just this morning I turned on my sprinkler system (installed RPZ valve and checked the 10 zones/sprinkler heads and 10 solenoids and flow and spray) using xAP. I procrastinated a bit because we had frost one time this past week (today its in the 80's).

MCSSprinklers is running now on a little Seagate Dockstar (same application as the stand alone and Homeseer Plugin). I disabled one of the two comm ports utilized for the W800 on the Homeseer ACRF2 en vivo running plugin and shifted that said utilized HS comm port to the stand alone W800 application running on the Homeseer box. I enabled remote control via the mcsSprinklers software and just inserted the valve xAP messages in the application.

I have only one serial cable plugged into the controller (Seagate Dockstar) today for control of the Rain8Nets and wanted to manually turn on and off each of the zones via xAP.

Two W800's are connected to HS and Homeseer has the mcsXAP plugin running.

That said as this is a quickie temporary thing that I do; I ran the stand alone W800 xAP application on the Homeseer box and configured the valves (solenoids) on the manifold / Rain8nets to respond to the 10 specfic xAP broadcasts from the stand alone W800 xAP application side mounted on the HS server.

It took 10 minutes to set it up. I used the xAP transmission viewer on my desktop and configured the first valve of 10 on mcsSprinklers. I then did a copy and past of the xap message to the other 9 valves just changing the message valve number and I was good to go. I did check the xap connection by using my palm pad in my home office and watching the serial comm to the Rain8nets for each of the 10 valves before actually going outside to do the other stuff.

This was more of an experiment to see how fast I could do it and a bit related to most current topic here.

Best "test" to get comfortable with xAP is to try it yourself connecting some physical automation device to a side mounted xap application and have it talk to Homeseer xAP via the network. Set up some xap to Homeseer variable like a light or a TTS or Wave file to validate its function. Start by an on and off switch or something similiar for whatever.

BTW I always use the xAP transmission viewer to validate that the xAP message is getting on the network; valuable tool. I do sometimes see transmission issues with xAP because I side mount now 4 xAP programs and utilize the HS xAP plugin and they all talk at once.

[Michael McSharry]

When HS3 actually is available to the general public then I will get back to the HS3 xAP plugin and give a simple walkthrough. When a specific objective is being achieved (e.g. shadow HS2 devices in HS3) then it should be pretty easy.

Because so many solutions can be solved with the distributed architecture and xAP protocol new users will be lost when trying to learn xAP. Once some baby steps are taken then it will be easier.

In the HS1 days HS supported audio output on the computer running HS1. mcsXap could be used to seamlessly run a speaker and voice recognition client on another computer. HS2 comes out with a speaker client.

In both HS1 and HS2 mcsXap provided the abilty to intercept the IO/X10/IR API to plugins and effectively run the equivalent xAP conector on a remote computer and run multiple copies. HS3 will come out with plugins that have abilty to run on multiple instances and on muliple computers.

HS is inching toward support for distributed architectures. This, however, is being achieved with a proprietary design rather than the open design such as with xAP. The proprietary design does allow capabilities to be developed to enhance the product at the expense of portability. Pretty much like the closed Apple vs. open MS/Google business models.

[Uncle Michael]

When HS3 actually is available to the general public then I will get back to the HS3 xAP plugin and give a simple walkthrough. When a specific objective is being achieved (e.g. shadow HS2 devices in HS3) then it should be pretty easy.

Excellent!

[donstephens]

Michael:

Any update on this?

When HS3 actually is available to the general public then I will get back to the HS3 xAP plugin and give a simple walkthrough. When a specific objective is being achieved (e.g. shadow HS2 devices in HS3) then it should be pretty easy.

Because so many solutions can be solved with the distributed architecture and xAP protocol new users will be lost when trying to learn xAP. Once some baby steps are taken then it will be easier.

In the HS1 days HS supported audio output on the computer running HS1. mcsXap could be used to seamlessly run a speaker and voice recognition client on another computer. HS2 comes out with a speaker client.

In both HS1 and HS2 mcsXap provided the abilty to intercept the IO/X10/IR API to plugins and effectively run the equivalent xAP conector on a remote computer and run multiple copies. HS3 will come out with plugins that have abilty to run on multiple instances and on muliple computers.

HS is inching toward support for distributed architectures. This, however, is being achieved with a proprietary design rather than the open design such as with xAP. The proprietary design does allow capabilities to be developed to enhance the product at the expense of portability. Pretty much like the closed Apple vs. open MS/Google business models.

[Michael McSharry]

I had not looked at HS3 since December when I first ported mcsXap and mcsSprinklers. Now that HS3 is in general public beta I will open up the project and see what has changed in the past 6 months.

[donstephens]

Thanks. Love to try mcsXap.

[Wadenut]

You may recall Michael, about a year ago, I tried maintaining devices over a XAP bridge between two HS2 machines. You suggested then, and I later proved, that there would be problems in doing this. IE: Two machines controlling and maintaining and reacting to a single device status/value. Fact is, once I was able to establish two way communication between the machines, (which wasn't at all an easy task as suggested above), the setup led to a racing condition as expected... Both machines reacting out of sync. What's changed now to make such an interface feasible/possible?

Second, do we know for sure both HS2 and HS3 can run simultaneously on a single machine, or will two machines (real or virtual) be required, one running HS2 and one HS3.

[ Rant ]
I for one won't be jumping on the HS3 bandwagon until most of the necessary plugins have finally been successfully ported to HS3. After that I'd have months of work ahead re-writing hundreds of my own scripts and developing means to replace those plugins which won't be making the transition. Besides, summer is absolutely the worst time of the year for all this.
After years of work, I finally have HS2 running so it doesn't require daily intervention; and besides, I do have a life. I don't intend to spend the summer in the basement.
[ / Rant ]

[Pete]

On a very simplistic single RS-232 connection to my Russound; I have two devices controlling it today. Homeseer and the HAI OPII panel. A one per serial device connection though can get costly at $150 per device and it would work better with two servers. That said you can also do this in software. The whole thing though gets a bit convoluted and I don't know if it would be worth the effort.

http://avocationsystems.com/wp/wp-co...tructions1.pdf

I tested the xAP methodologies by connecting a device to a stand alone xap side mounted program (IE: WGL W800) and controlled it both via X10 wireless and xap broadcasts (I/O) and it worked for me. The response times were faster via xAP than the IO with a direct connected WGL W800 plugin. (but that is my setup).

Relating to the HS3 and HS2 running setups; many folks may run HS3 to play with but will leave their HS2 stuff running their home. Its really the same stuff as beta testing HS2 stuff. Many folks had stable HS2 set ups and did not ever go to HS2 beta because of this and WAF. But; many users are doing all of their automation stuff with one interface to say a Z-Troller and only are using Z-Wave today for all of their automation. This would be an easier set up to work with HS3.

Today connecting the audio out of box #2 into the audio input of box #1 such that both boxes' audio will be output to zoned sound system. (easier than splitting it right now for me). Actually doing this for second W2C box / HSPhone stuff on second line as my main HS2 Snelv CID stuff is not working in a timely manner anymore and best disfunctional today. (either annnounces CID on the first ring or way after the 4th ring).

[donstephens]

I can appreciate your rant, Wadenut. There is a ton of work for most of us involved with jumping from HS2 to HS3.

I was hoping XaP could be a bridge where we could slowly move from one software platform to another. That would take the pressure off and do away with a few days of frantic work.