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  • Single Event?

    Does anyone know how to do the following in a single event? Basically I'm trying to turn on the office lights when it is off for more than 5 mins and detects motion and turn of when there's no motion for 30 minutes.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    This can't be done with one event. You can have a whole world of triggers and conditions but all together they can only perform one action or set of actions. What you're looking for is "Else" functionality, which HS3 doesn't have. I agree that it would be great and would greatly reduce the amount of events needed but it's just not in the cards right now.
    Originally posted by rprade
    There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

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    • #3
      Originally posted by S-F View Post
      This can't be done with one event. You can have a whole world of triggers and conditions but all together they can only perform one action or set of actions. What you're looking for is "Else" functionality, which HS3 doesn't have. I agree that it would be great and would greatly reduce the amount of events needed but it's just not in the cards right now.
      Just got into HS3, do not like it, but it sounds like HS3 lacks a hell of a lot which HS2 spoiled us with.
      sigpic
      A founder member of "The HA Pioneer Group" otherwise known as the "Old farts club!"
      HomeSeer 3 V 3.0.0.318 with ALEXA (AKA Amazon Echo)
      BL Radar V2.0.217; BLRF V2.0.85.0; HS Touch V3.0.0.1034 X10 V3.0.0.42; PHLocation V3.0.0.38; Zwave V3.0.1.110; X10 V3.0.0.42
      BLBackup V2.0.39;ImperiHome3.0.0.20 All on Windows XP Pro

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Gogs View Post
        Just got into HS3, do not like it, but it sounds like HS3 lacks a hell of a lot which HS2 spoiled us with.

        Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions. Mine personally is that the event creation engine in HS3 is vastly superior to that of HS2. It has a bit of a learning curve because it is so flexible, but once you wrap your head around how it works things are pretty straightforward. HS2 also didn't have the "Else" functionality as I recall. Coming from Vera and HS2 I feel spoiled by HS3!
        Originally posted by rprade
        There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by S-F View Post
          Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions. Mine personally is that the event creation engine in HS3 is vastly superior to that of HS2. It has a bit of a learning curve because it is so flexible, but once you wrap your head around how it works things are pretty straightforward. HS2 also didn't have the "Else" functionality as I recall. Coming from Vera and HS2 I feel spoiled by HS3!
          Thanks for respecting everyone's own opinions and I think you have summed it up in a nut shell, "It has a bit of a learning curve" indeed it does.

          HS2 stuck pretty much to the conventions of HS1 so that was not difficult. HS3, as I see it so far, has gone off on a completely different direction, and all has to be learnt again especially with scripts.

          BTW, HS2 does support the "else" statement, I use it a lot in scripts and events in HS2.
          sigpic
          A founder member of "The HA Pioneer Group" otherwise known as the "Old farts club!"
          HomeSeer 3 V 3.0.0.318 with ALEXA (AKA Amazon Echo)
          BL Radar V2.0.217; BLRF V2.0.85.0; HS Touch V3.0.0.1034 X10 V3.0.0.42; PHLocation V3.0.0.38; Zwave V3.0.1.110; X10 V3.0.0.42
          BLBackup V2.0.39;ImperiHome3.0.0.20 All on Windows XP Pro

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Sireone View Post
            Does anyone know how to do the following in a single event? Basically I'm trying to turn on the office lights when it is off for more than 5 mins and detects motion and turn of when there's no motion for 30 minutes.
            Like S-F said you cannot have a single event with differing sets of triggers and conditions. The question I ask is one I have asked many times before, why the desire to consolidate the actions of several events into a single event? With separate events each set of trigger, condition(s) and actions can be unique to a goal and you have the opportunity to name it clearly based upon that goal. It makes it a lot easier to understand the logic of the event as opposed to having all of the logic crammed in a single event.

            I have also read many times how much more "elegant" it is to get everything contained within a single event or to move to a script when the event logic gets too tortured. To me the elegance is in the function. What you have done with your two events functions exactly the way you describe your needs, each with unique triggers, conditions and actions.

            I have a handful of events that have 8 or more stacked IF/OR IF sections with a resultant single action or group of actions. They work perfectly, are very easy to read the "flow" of the event and are not difficult to build.

            Keep an eye on the Event Clinic forum, after we get the foundation laid of the fundamentals we will start building and dissecting events. You will find that HS3 has a very powerful and flexible event engine, once you get a clear understanding of how it evaluates triggers and conditions.
            Randy Prade
            Aurora, CO
            Prades.net

            PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

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            • #7
              Originally posted by rprade View Post
              The question I ask is one I have asked many times before, why the desire to consolidate the actions of several events into a single event?

              The reason is that it's intuitive to set up and a lot less work if one could set up events like a flow chart. It's just time consuming to have to make a bunch of similar yet slightly different events and they get difficult to keep track of. It's not that much of an issue. Setting up events does take a very long time. Years really. And it develops organically at a slow and steady pace. Another thing that I think would help is to have groups within groups. For example my group for livingroom Kinect events is ridiculously large. It would be great to have sub sections for things like lighting and climate control.
              Originally posted by rprade
              There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by S-F View Post
                This can't be done with one event. You can have a whole world of triggers and conditions but all together they can only perform one action or set of actions. What you're looking for is "Else" functionality, which HS3 doesn't have. I agree that it would be great and would greatly reduce the amount of events needed but it's just not in the cards right now.
                Rick Tinker challenged me 6 months ago to demonstrate an instance where an ELSE would ever work in a compound event, I have yet to find one.

                Other than a single trigger and action such as:

                IF there is motion
                THEN Set the light to ON

                ELSE Set the light to OFF


                I'll give you the same challenge - describe a compound event with a trigger and condition(s), where ELSE would work. Maybe you can find one. I would love to have an example that could be used in the Event Clinic forum.
                Randy Prade
                Aurora, CO
                Prades.net

                PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well, I think most people resolve ELSE conditions by using scripts. A perfect example is using morning weather notifications. Below is a sample event using weatherXML to speak the rain chances in the morning. Since there is no ELSE option, we can only have one action (or create another Event).

                  It would be nice to have the event speak the condition if it's going to be Sunny and no chances of rain. Something like this.

                  IF Time is Sunrise
                  AND IF Rain Today in Sunrise, FL is above 80
                  THEN Speak Looks like it's gonna rain today
                  ELSE IF Rain Today in Sunrise, FL is below 30
                  THEN Speak Beautiful day today, enjoy!
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sireone View Post
                    Well, I think most people resolve ELSE conditions by using scripts. A perfect example is using morning weather notifications. Below is a sample event using weatherXML to speak the rain chances in the morning. Since there is no ELSE option, we can only have one action (or create another Event).

                    It would be nice to have the event speak the condition if it's going to be Sunny and no chances of rain. Something like this.

                    IF Time is Sunrise
                    AND IF Rain Today in Sunrise, FL is above 80
                    THEN Speak Looks like it's gonna rain today
                    ELSE IF Rain Today in Sunrise, FL is below 30
                    THEN Speak Beautiful day today, enjoy!
                    I understand what you are saying, but you are describing two completely different actions executed on differing conditions. Not being familiar with HS2, was that possible with HS2?

                    And not to be pedantic, but why is what you describe better than

                    Event 1 (Rain forecast)
                    IF Time is Sunrise
                    AND IF Rain Today in Sunrise, FL is above 80
                    THEN Speak Looks like it's gonna rain today

                    Event 2 (Rain NOT forecast)
                    IF Time is Sunrise
                    AND IF Rain Today in Sunrise, FL is below 30
                    THEN Speak Beautiful day today, enjoy!

                    I guess I don't understand the aversion to multiple events.
                    Randy Prade
                    Aurora, CO
                    Prades.net

                    PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      @Sireone:

                      That doesn't really add any functionality that isn't already available though. Sure, it allows you to combine multiple events into one event, but other than slightly better appearance it doesn't provide anything that can't already be done.

                      If that was all there was to it I would say that it would still be a good option to have, but I think there are some cons that have to be considered...

                      1) Internally, the "else" and "else if" statements would still have to be considered separate events since they would have different trigger criteria from the initial if statement. This adds complexity to the system/code and adding complexity with little or no value often makes for unreliable software.

                      2) A lot of users (especially those that are not experienced with programming) would almost certainly create some really bad logic with that functionality. For example...

                      IF SomeLight Changes to On
                      THEN Set AnotherLight to On
                      ELSE Set AnotherLight to Off

                      The else part of this statement would run any time SomeLight didn't change to on, which would be nearly all the time. It would also be impossible to control AnotherLight independently.

                      I'm not saying that "Else If" shouldn't be considered, but I can also see how it could be more trouble than it's worth. Especially since it is really just another way of organizing the event logic and UI display rather than adding to the capabilities of HomeSeer.

                      For what it's worth, I actually prefer to have two separate events for motion controlled lighting such as in your original post. It allows me to disable or limit the "motion/on" events while keeping the "no motion/off" event enabled. For example, when my home is in "Sleep" mode I don't want HomeSeer blasting me with bright lights if I make a trip to the kitchen for some water at 4AM. However, I still want the garage light to be turned off if I left it on before going to bed. So in my opinion, the events in your original post are already "optimized."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by S-F View Post
                        The reason is that it's intuitive to set up and a lot less work if one could set up events like a flow chart. It's just time consuming to have to make a bunch of similar yet slightly different events and they get difficult to keep track of. It's not that much of an issue. Setting up events does take a very long time. Years really. And it develops organically at a slow and steady pace. Another thing that I think would help is to have groups within groups.
                        This is one I could get behind 100%. And I would like to be able to apply group conditions to the subgroups. I don't use group actions, but that could be provided as well. I could even see value to this nesting being three deep. For example:

                        Lighting Group
                        Motion Controlled lighting (with Group Conditions, active nightime, etc)
                        Bedroom lighting controls
                        • Lights ON with Motion
                        • Lights OFF with Motion
                        • Cancel Motion Control
                        • Default dim level Daytime
                        • Default dim level Evening
                        • Default dim level Night
                        Bedroom lighting controls
                        • Lights ON with Motion
                        • Lights OFF with Motion
                        • Cancel Motion Control
                        • Default dim level Daytime
                        • Default dim level Evening
                        • Default dim level Night

                        Time Controlled lighting (with Group Conditions)
                        Front Porch Lighting Controls
                        • Front Porch lights ON
                        • Front Porch Lights OFF
                        Driveway lighting controls
                        • Driveway lights ON
                        • Driveway Lights OFF
                        HVAC Group

                        Etc.
                        For example my group for livingroom Kinect events is ridiculously large. It would be great to have sub sections for things like lighting and climate control.
                        It would seem that nested groups would give much more organizational value than the ability to bury complex trees of triggers, conditions and actions within a single event.

                        Enhancement request in Bugzilla 2505, pile on if interested.
                        Last edited by rprade; January 1st, 2015, 09:11 PM.
                        Randy Prade
                        Aurora, CO
                        Prades.net

                        PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                        Comment

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