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    Z-Wave problems - working now!

    Hi everyone, I hope this is the right place to post this I am new to Homeseer. I converted over from the Vera 3 a couple weeks ago and I am having quiet a lot of problems getting Zwave devices to function reliably.

    First off I am running HS3 PRO with the Z-NET Zwave controller and Zwave plug in version 3.0.1.55. I have roughly 30 Z-wave devices.

    The problem I am having is the Zwave devices only seem to report a change randomly. For example I am running several Aeon recessed door sensors. I can see things trigger when I open/close the door on the sensor itself (LED). But the status is not changing in home seer or launching the events it should about 50% of the time. In addition about 25% of the time it detects the change several minutes after it happens. This problem is not restricted to a single device or device type. I tried doing the full optimization about a week ago and that seems to have made everything worse. Can someone point me in the correct direction to start getting this fixed? Thanks in advance.

    To show you what I am talking about, this door has been closed for over 20 min and no change has taken place.

    Last edited by ajachierno; February 20, 2016, 11:59 AM. Reason: add pic

    #2
    " This problem is not restricted to a single device or device type....I tried doing the full optimization about a week ago and that seems to have made everything worse."

    First are you polling your devices? How many z-wave devices in your systems- (ok I see you have 30 devices) Do you have any aeon energy devices, if so how many? From what you've posted it seems like z-wave network/mesh congestion.


    What are you system details? how long have you had this problem, how old is your setup(meaning was it problem free under vera for months -years and now it shows up?, have you had this problem since you started, do you have a z-stick or z-net, etc?
    Last edited by TomTom; February 20, 2016, 12:36 PM.
    Tom
    baby steps...starting again with HS3
    HS3Pro: Z-NET & 80 Z wave Devices,
    HSTouch: 4 Joggler (Android Kitkat), 2 iPhone, 3 iPads
    Whole House Audio: 5 SqueezePlay Jogglers w Bose Speakers
    In The Works: 10 Cameras Geovision, new Adecmo/Envisalink Alarm, Arduinos
    System: XP on Fanless Mini-ITX w/ SSD

    Comment


      #3
      I'm thinking z-wave congestion in communication due to too much polling, z-wave communication(like aeon energy device), and/or defective z-wave device in the network (causing a bottleneck in communication or re-routing of communication).

      If you're not polling or have aeon energy devices, then to find defective problematic devices.
      1 First turn disable your z-wave plugin, wait a few mins, then enable it.
      2. Then Restart your z-stick/z-net: go Plugins > Z-wave > Controller > Restart This Interface.
      3. Then Go to your z-wave interface(z-stick or z-net). Plugins >Z-wave> Controller >... and do a Test Connectivity. This will tell you about your devices

      This should give you a clue if there are any devices that are not communicating or problematic. Hope this helps
      Tom
      baby steps...starting again with HS3
      HS3Pro: Z-NET & 80 Z wave Devices,
      HSTouch: 4 Joggler (Android Kitkat), 2 iPhone, 3 iPads
      Whole House Audio: 5 SqueezePlay Jogglers w Bose Speakers
      In The Works: 10 Cameras Geovision, new Adecmo/Envisalink Alarm, Arduinos
      System: XP on Fanless Mini-ITX w/ SSD

      Comment


        #4
        To follow what TomTom is suggesting, I would take it step by step. Optimization will only work on battery operated devices when they are awake. In order to properly optimize battery operated nodes, it is best to optimize all of the powered nodes, then the battery operated ones afterwards. The only way you can do that is to wake it up (usually removing the battery for 15 seconds and reinstalling it will work) and optimize the node individually and immediately. My battery powered door and window sensors will all communicate directly with the Z-Net so I route them direct.

        There are some fairly good diagnostic tools built in. First, I would enable Z-Wave command logging. Go to Plug-ins and click on manage, at the bottom of the page click on Z-Wave at the bottom - it is a hyperlink.





        Enable "Log send and receive device information to the HomeSeer log". Also at the bottom of this page you can see the statistics of your network - specifically the Queues which should not be stacking up. Here all of mine are at 0.





        This will cause Z-Wave commands to be logged to the HomeSeer log. Then you need to pick one device that is troublesome, hopefully one that is close to your Z-Net. Here I picked one of my multi-sensors. You can see the node number in the address.




        Then you can go to Plug-ins>Z-Wave>Node information and look at that node number. In this case it is 204




        This will show you the routing information for that node. In the case of my multi- sensor it is using two hops to get to the controller. If it is close to the controller you can clear the routing information by clicking in the "Set Route: window. You will get a popup just click "Submit" with it blank and clear the route. If you enter node number(s) it will create a new route using those nodes, but if it fails it will still revert back to the last known good route.




        Then the route will be "Direct (Auto)". This means it will attempt direct communication. If that fails it will revert to the last known good route. If you enter node number(s) it will create a new route using those nodes, but if it fails it will still revert back to the last known good route.




        Then you can start activating the device and monitor the log. Here I have filtered on "Front Porch" to get the device reporting entries. You can see all the communications to the device during the log period I have filtered.




        The above device is set to report Luminance every 2 minutes, Humidity and Temperature every 5 minutes. Note that Humidity didn't report, because it didn't change. I set this device to report on this schedule specifically for this post, normally I wouldn't have it report so frequently as it adds a lot of traffic to the network. My network has 110 nodes, many with multiple child nodes.




        Here I have filtered on "204" to get the node communication entries.




        Using those tools may help you understand what is happening or give you cause to ask more specific questions.
        HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.16 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by TomTom View Post
          I'm thinking z-wave congestion in communication due to too much polling, z-wave communication(like aeon energy device), and/or defective z-wave device in the network (causing a bottleneck in communication or re-routing of communication).

          If you're not polling or have aeon energy devices, then to find defective problematic devices.
          1 First turn disable your z-wave plugin, wait a few mins, then enable it.
          2. Then Restart your z-stick/z-net: go Plugins > Z-wave > Controller > Restart This Interface.
          3. Then Go to your z-wave interface(z-stick or z-net). Plugins >Z-wave> Controller >... and do a Test Connectivity. This will tell you about your devices

          This should give you a clue if there are any devices that are not communicating or problematic. Hope this helps
          Ok so I did this and I have about 1/3 of my nodes not responding. What is the best way to fix this, just remove and readd the nodes? rprade I tried going to the node information like you said and it just got stuck loading and then looks like it times out and goes to an all white screen. I do have 3 Aeon power devices, is there something special I need to do with those? or are they not compatible?

          More system details

          dedicated computer running windows 10 and nothing but HS3

          I did not have any issues under Vera, was just ready for an upgrade with some more advanced options.

          Z-net Z wave adapter.


          Comment


            #6
            Wow Randy what a detailed post about z-wave! Nice!

            Ajachierno you're luck to have Professor Randy take you through Z-wave University. His detail info and post should be saved for future reference. I know I have

            What are Nodes 2, 9, 29?

            Aeon Energy Devices - how often are they reporting info back to z-net. Click on the z-wave tab then settings? Each of these energy devices can report back 4-5 different pieces of info back to z-net and if its too often it leads to congestion.

            Sorry to ask again, but are you polling any devices?
            Tom
            baby steps...starting again with HS3
            HS3Pro: Z-NET & 80 Z wave Devices,
            HSTouch: 4 Joggler (Android Kitkat), 2 iPhone, 3 iPads
            Whole House Audio: 5 SqueezePlay Jogglers w Bose Speakers
            In The Works: 10 Cameras Geovision, new Adecmo/Envisalink Alarm, Arduinos
            System: XP on Fanless Mini-ITX w/ SSD

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by TomTom View Post
              Wow Randy what a detailed post about z-wave! Nice!

              Ajachierno you're luck to have Professor Randy take you through Z-wave University. His detail info and post should be saved for future reference. I know I have

              What are Nodes 2, 9, 29?

              Aeon Energy Devices - how often are they reporting info back to z-net. Click on the z-wave tab then settings? Each of these energy devices can report back 4-5 different pieces of info back to z-net and if its too often it leads to congestion.

              Sorry to ask again, but are you polling any devices?
              Its funny you ask that, before you posted this the node information page finally loaded and I didnt know what those were so i deleted them. May have been a mistake as after that i reran the connection test and could not connect to any nodes. I then re ran the full optimization and I can now connect to 7 of 24 nodes again. I am not 100% sure what you mean by polling? I did not change any of the default polling settings if that is what you are asking. Below is a screen shot of the Zwave screen of one of the aeon power devices as well as the log for that device. Thanks again everyone for you help.


              Comment


                #8
                How many times did you optimize? Did you do a Full optimization? Once that's done you may need to rescan and optimize devices that are still having trouble communicating. You can do one node at a time as well under the node's root device z-wave tab. Do a Test Connectivity there as well and if that fails, optimize it until it works reliably.

                Cheers
                Al
                HS 4.2.8.0: 2134 Devices 1252 Events
                Z-Wave 3.0.10.0: 133 Nodes on one Z-Net

                Comment


                  #9
                  Node 2, 9, 29 could have been unsuccessful adds or devices you removed but didn't get fully deleted. I had a phantom device like this that caused me headaches, but I didn't realize it until I went node by node, to finally realize it was a phantom node. Now that you've deleted this, restart z-wave plugin and z-net. I always do this after a weird deleted or problematic add/remove because sometimes the info seems to "hang" in the z wave database.
                  I don't see any issue with your Aeon if you haven't altered the settings and no issue with polling if you haven't modified setting there either.
                  As Sparkman states, the next step is to go through Full Optimizations, then re scan individual devices that are not communicating.

                  Also in my experience, sometimes you need to give the network time to "marinate", even if your optimizations aren't completely successful, just turn your problematic devices on/off(not repeatedly) and use them as you normally would. In time you will soon the devices find their own path to it's neighbors and the z-net.
                  I had a compeltely mature network, several years, but one day out of the blue my z-wave network crashed. I had numerous communication issues and connectivity test was hopeless. The problem seems to have been some phantom nodes, a few poorly communicating devices, etc. Z-wave is also part woo-doo science....

                  Originally posted by ajachierno View Post
                  Its funny you ask that, before you posted this the node information page finally loaded and I didnt know what those were so i deleted them. May have been a mistake as after that i reran the connection test and could not connect to any nodes. I then re ran the full optimization and I can now connect to 7 of 24 nodes again. I am not 100% sure what you mean by polling? I did not change any of the default polling settings if that is what you are asking. Below is a screen shot of the Zwave screen of one of the aeon power devices as well as the log for that device. Thanks again everyone for you help.


                  Tom
                  baby steps...starting again with HS3
                  HS3Pro: Z-NET & 80 Z wave Devices,
                  HSTouch: 4 Joggler (Android Kitkat), 2 iPhone, 3 iPads
                  Whole House Audio: 5 SqueezePlay Jogglers w Bose Speakers
                  In The Works: 10 Cameras Geovision, new Adecmo/Envisalink Alarm, Arduinos
                  System: XP on Fanless Mini-ITX w/ SSD

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by TomTom View Post
                    Node 2, 9, 29 could have been unsuccessful adds or devices you removed but didn't get fully deleted. I had a phantom device like this that caused me headaches, but I didn't realize it until I went node by node, to finally realize it was a phantom node. Now that you've deleted this, restart z-wave plugin and z-net. I always do this after a weird deleted or problematic add/remove because sometimes the info seems to "hang" in the z wave database.
                    I don't see any issue with your Aeon if you haven't altered the settings and no issue with polling if you haven't modified setting there either.
                    As Sparkman states, the next step is to go through Full Optimizations, then re scan individual devices that are not communicating.

                    Also in my experience, sometimes you need to give the network time to "marinate", even if your optimizations aren't completely successful, just turn your problematic devices on/off(not repeatedly) and use them as you normally would. In time you will soon the devices find their own path to it's neighbors and the z-net.
                    I had a compeltely mature network, several years, but one day out of the blue my z-wave network crashed. I had numerous communication issues and connectivity test was hopeless. The problem seems to have been some phantom nodes, a few poorly communicating devices, etc. Z-wave is also part woo-doo science....
                    Originally posted by sparkman View Post
                    How many times did you optimize? Did you do a Full optimization? Once that's done you may need to rescan and optimize devices that are still having trouble communicating. You can do one node at a time as well under the node's root device z-wave tab. Do a Test Connectivity there as well and if that fails, optimize it until it works reliably.

                    Cheers
                    Al
                    I may just need to give it time then, I have optimized and full optimized at least half a dozen times just today. I just got it down to only 4 devices not responding a couple mins ago. I then opened up each one that was not responding individually and got a successful full optimization. Then ran full optimization for all devices and now i am back down to only 4 devices responding not even sure how that happens. Thanks again all for your help.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      How far are these devices from your controller? Are they fringe devices? What are the devices?
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                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ajachierno View Post
                        I may just need to give it time then, I have optimized and full optimized at least half a dozen times just today. I just got it down to only 4 devices not responding a couple mins ago. I then opened up each one that was not responding individually and got a successful full optimization. Then ran full optimization for all devices and now i am back down to only 4 devices responding not even sure how that happens. Thanks again all for your help.
                        That tells me that you have a mis-behaving device or a device that's going to sleep that others are trying to route through. Can you post screen-shots of your complete zwave plugin node information page?

                        Cheers
                        Al
                        HS 4.2.8.0: 2134 Devices 1252 Events
                        Z-Wave 3.0.10.0: 133 Nodes on one Z-Net

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I had a Z-wave issue a couple of years ago that turned out to be a faulty plug-in module that just transmitted random noise causing congestion.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by sparkman View Post
                            That tells me that you have a mis-behaving device or a device that's going to sleep that others are trying to route through. Can you post screen-shots of your complete zwave plugin node information page?

                            Cheers
                            Al
                            Going to have to follow the link to see this one not letting me insert as an image.
                            http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/aj...rr3pi.png.html

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Rupp View Post
                              How far are these devices from your controller? Are they fringe devices? What are the devices?
                              1 of them is pretty far maybe 60 feet from the controller the rest that are giving me the most trouble are all probably around 20 feet some of them are in the same gang box as other devices showing normal connection at the same time they are not responding.

                              Comment

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