Monitor power on or off

[wkearney99]

But the OP was "looking for a way to know if the utility power is on or off". At best there would be a 60-240 second period before the generator was running and at worst the generator doesn't start and HomeSeer doesn't know the power had failed.

Where is the immediacy of detection requested?

He's asking about a 15 minute delay for HVAC management. Which, incidentally, might be more complicated that he expects. You want to be very careful about automation control of HVAC gear lest you turn logic loose on hardware that can be damaged from improper/rapid cycling.

I have a generator setup and, honestly, it's better to plan the load shedding via the transfer panel than trying to over-think it in automation software. That requires spending on a transfer panel setup that can do that, of course. But when it comes to emergency situations and standby generators I can't in good conscience justify playing games with 'saving money' given the risks.

[Uncle Michael]

I'd be inclined to only use that relay with power from the generator. That way it'd only be consuming power (and closing the relay) when the generator was actually running.

In principle I agree with you, but practically, it's not clear the energy to power a relay would have any material effect on overall household consumption. (Besides, if we really wanted to save money, we wouldn't be buying all these HA toys in the first place. )

[randy]

Where is the immediacy of detection requested?

There was none. I was actually illustrating two problems with monitoring the generator - the worst case being that the generator doesn't start at all and the automation has no idea the power has failed.

He's asking about a 15 minute delay for HVAC management. Which, incidentally, might be more complicated that he expects. You want to be very careful about automation control of HVAC gear lest you turn logic loose on hardware that can be damaged from improper/rapid cycling.

The logic that DC wants to employ would actually prevent short cycling, which is a good thing and the logic would not be complicated at all. Turn the AC off when the power fails and delay turning it on for 15 minutes after power is restored. All of this can only be done by monitoring the utility power rather than the generator.

I have a generator setup and, honestly, it's better to plan the load shedding via the transfer panel than trying to over-think it in automation software. That requires spending on a transfer panel setup that can do that, of course. But when it comes to emergency situations and standby generators I can't in good conscience justify playing games with 'saving money' given the risks.

I also have a generator with automatic transfer and some integrated load shedding, but I have a number of things I want to have happen the instant power goes off, other things when the generator comes online, still more things if the generator fails to come online within its time window, another group when utility power is restored and a final group when the transfer to utility is completed and the generator has run its cool down and shutdown. Since some of those groups involve notification I could do a lot of what I accomplish with events by using Briggs' InfoHub for $300 in hardware and a monthly subscription, but I prefer to integrate it into existing home control.

The bottom line of all of this discussion is that there are many different ways any of us can approach a situation with none of them being either right or wrong. My only point of responding to your first post was not to say that your suggestion of monitoring the generator was wrong, just that it is not an absolute indicator of loss of utility power. From an energy standpoint, the switch mode wall wart I use to provide a DC voltage to an Arduino analog input is drawing virtually no measurable energy, I don't use a relay. DC used an Ocelot which is essentially the same as an Arduino. Even if he used an analog wall wart with his relay the current draw is so low as to be inconsequential.

[wkearney99]

There was none. I was actually illustrating two problems with monitoring the generator - the worst case being that the generator doesn't start at all and the automation has no idea the power has failed. The logic that DC wants to employ would actually prevent short cycling, which is a good thing and the logic would not be complicated at all. Turn the AC off when the power fails and delay turning it on for 15 minutes after power is restored. All of this can only be done by monitoring the utility power rather than the generator. I also have a generator with automatic transfer and some integrated load shedding, but I have a number of things I want to have happen the instant power goes off, other things when the generator comes online, still more things if the generator fails to come online within its time window, another group when utility power is restored and a final group when the transfer to utility is completed and the generator has run its cool down and shutdown. Since some of those groups involve notification I could do a lot of what I accomplish with events by using Briggs' InfoHub for $300 in hardware and a monthly subscription, but I prefer to integrate it into existing home control.

The bottom line of all of this discussion is that there are many different ways any of us can approach a situation with none of them being either right or wrong. My only point of responding to your first post was not to say that your suggestion of monitoring the generator was wrong, just that it is not an absolute indicator of loss of utility power. From an energy standpoint, the switch mode wall wart I use to provide a DC voltage to an Arduino analog input is drawing virtually no measurable energy, I don't use a relay. DC used an Ocelot which is essentially the same as an Arduino. Even if he used an analog wall wart with his relay the current draw is so low as to be inconsequential.

Agreed. Knowing what you want benefits from know what you don't want. Especially before buying gear that won't actually work effectively. Oh, do I have a bin full of those gizmos...

Short cycling being a thing to know about before reinventing the wheel with managing HVAC equipment. Most folks don't know their thermostats are attempting to do this sort of them automatically. Trying to duplicate that in HA software is certainly possible, just know there are risks. Likewise freeze monitoring, at the other end of the scale.

[randy]

It was only through the temperature monitoring, demand monitoring and valve status

Agreed. Knowing what you want benefits from know what you don't want. Especially before buying gear that won't actually work effectively. Oh, do I have a bin full of those gizmos...

Short cycling being a thing to know about before reinventing the wheel with managing HVAC equipment. Most folks don't know their thermostats are attempting to do this sort of them automatically. Trying to duplicate that in HA software is certainly possible, just know there are risks. Likewise freeze monitoring, at the other end of the scale.

I will add one last anecdotal observation to this discussion. For years I wanted to keep the burner on my boiler from short cycling. There was nothing built into the system to prevent it and I couldn't find any commercial products to do what I wanted. Short burn cycles aren't damaging to the equipment, just inefficient. With the temperature monitoring (boiler, ambient, pipe and room), valve status monitoring and demand monitoring provided to HomeSeer I was able to employ logic that prevents short burn cycles as well as extracting as much thermal energy from the boiler as possible for summertime hot water production.

It is also important to consider a failover plan for critical systems when automation is not working, so my system will always turn to traditional electro-mechanical control when the mothership is offline.

[gg22]

Is there a simple device (Zwave maybe) that I can plug into an outlet to tell HS whether the outlet is hot or not? I have a generator that powers a lot of my house (including my HS system). I'm looking for a way to know if the utility power is on or off. I could just plug a simple device into an outlet that is not on the generator if there is such a device.

I run my HS on a laptop. There is a plugin that detect when the laptop is on battery - jon00 battery monitor

https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/3r...onitor-for-hs3