Run as a service

[cesarvog]

It's been a long time since HS3 has been launched...

When can we expect to have the much needed ability to run HS3 as a service on Windows?
I hate to have to resort to auto-login and third party solutions to achieve what seems to be an obvious necessity for an **automation** system.

[John245]

+1

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John


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jon00]

You can always use 3rd Party apps to do this including AlwaysUp and FireDaemon Pro. Some others prevent the Web server serving ASPX pages.....

[langenet]

As I did in HS2, I run HS3 using FireDaemon without issue. Though, I do wonder why it's not native.

Robert

[cesarvog]

Thanks guys,

As I mentioned, this should be a built-in feature. We should not have to use 3rd party program to enable this functionality. The way I see it, it's waaaaaay overdue.

In case of power failure, run as a service would be the best solution to have the homeseer automation system auto recover when power is restored.

[Rupp]

Thanks guys,

As I mentioned, this should be a built-in feature. We should not have to use 3rd party program to enable this functionality. The way I see it, it's waaaaaay overdue.

In case of power failure, run as a service would be the best solution to have the homeseer automation system auto recover when power is restored.

Just as a point of reference. If I have a power outage HS3 restarts as expected.

[MrMxyzptlk]

This would be great (although I use AlwaysUp already), and multi-homed servers.
But I was told HS3 is not a professional product and would not support these options.
It is and always has been a hobbiest product...

Uggg!

[sirmeili]

This would be great (although I use AlwaysUp already), and multi-homed servers.
But I was told HS3 is not a professional product and would not support these options.
It is and always has been a hobbiest product...

Uggg!

My POV - That makes no sense. There is no reason a "hobbyist " product can't be run as a service. Also, for what I paid for it (even with the 50% off black Friday special!), I would consider it more than just a hobbyist product.

I'm not saying that because I don't consider it a hobbyist product that they should add this feature in, but I do think it's a poor excuse to not add it. I'm sure there are many other reasons they could come up with.

[cesarvog]

Just as a point of reference. If I have a power outage HS3 restarts as expected.

You mean, without auto-login and 3rd party utilities help?
If so, please tell us HOW, so everyone can benefit from your knowledge.
Please share your setup.

[randy]

You mean, without auto-login and 3rd party utilities help?
If so, please tell us HOW, so everyone can benefit from your knowledge.
Please share your setup.

It cannot be done without auto-login and Rupp did not state that, if that was your criteria. In your original statement "run as a service would be the best solution to have the homeseer automation system auto recover when power is restored." you didn't imply that it was a criteria not to use auto-login or 3rd party utilities and one could reasonably argue which solution is "best". That said, with auto-login it is perfectly reliable starting up from a power failure and no more or less reliable than starting a service. Everyone may have a preference between running as an application or a service, but since HomeSeer is a stand alone appliance for me, I have no issue with it running as an application automatically logged on as a unique user on my network.

Running it under FireDaemon or AlwaysUP has an advantage over a straight service in that it is monitored to be running and restarted if needed. HSSentry will do the same when run as an application under an automatically logged in user.

[claude]

Interesting to see this topic relive, again and again. I understand the frustration but "again and again" implies a search of past posts would reveal:
1- that HS will NOT make 'running HS3 as a service' native
2- that several of us have invested time to describe working solutions

Be aware that some of those solutions appear to work until, for example, Windows decides to reboot after an update and recent HS changes are lost.

I've been using NSSM for ever, never fails. From my personal evaluation, it has the most complete set of functionality.

[jon00]

I've been using NSSM for ever, never fails. From my personal evaluation, it has the most complete set of functionality.

NSSM is not 100% compatible with Homeseer 3. For one you cannot serve .ASPX web pages.

[cesarvog]

It cannot be done without auto-login and Rupp did not state that, if that was your criteria. In your original statement "run as a service would be the best solution to have the homeseer automation system auto recover when power is restored." you didn't imply that it was a criteria not to use auto-login or 3rd party utilities and one could reasonably argue which solution is "best". That said, with auto-login it is perfectly reliable starting up from a power failure and no more or less reliable than starting a service. Everyone may have a preference between running as an application or a service, but since HomeSeer is a stand alone appliance for me, I have no issue with it running as an application automatically logged on as a unique user on my network.

Running it under FireDaemon or AlwaysUP has an advantage over a straight service in that it is monitored to be running and restarted if needed. HSSentry will do the same when run as an application under an automatically logged in user.

Mr. Sprade,

Ever since I started using Homeseer, I have enjoyed reading your posts and the knowledge you share.

Forgive me, but I thought that anyone participating on this thread would have read the whole thing (after all, it is not long thread). That being correct, I figure I made myself clear about not using auto-login and 3rd party programs.

From a security perspective, run as a service seems better to me (IMHO). If this feature was present, one would not need to leave the Windows computer logged on to his/her Microsoft account at all times, which seems to be the default for Windows 10 when you first install it.

I know one could create local user accounts without this kind of "link" to the Microsoft account. But I think it's not clear how to do it for most users, and some users may not even recognise the type of security risks involved.

Additionally, from a cost perspective, I believe most people share their Windows computers with other users in their households. Think of a spouse, a teenager or maybe an elder family member.

I can see them logging off the account running HS3 in order to log on to their own accounts, just to get access to their personal email accounts, or some other personal stuff (like twitter, facebook, whatever kids hang on to these days).

One family member logging off the account runing HS3 would make the program close. This means all your carefully created automation events would not work until someone re-log to the appropriate account.

I'm familiar with the Disconnect option instead of Logoff, but try teaching that to your 70+ family member and have them remember.

One may also argue that from a cost perspective, not everyone has the luxury of having a computer for the single purpose of running a single application, nor the will to pay additional 50 bucks on 3rd party programs like the ones mentioned in this thread.

Finally, it's an automation product unable to automate itself...

So, IMHO, run as a service is better. And the first post clearly states that as a criteria. Users should not have to resort to workarounds like auto-login and 3rd party programs to have it resilient to power outages, or computer sharing with other users.

[jlrichar]

I think you are spot on with respect to security and win10. Though keep in mind Win 10 phones home even without users logged in. I think your plan to not dedicate a computer for HS3 though is not a good plan. If cost is an issue there are solutions such as the zee2, or a cheap atom based computer (Zotac Liva for example). Also, there is the Linux version of HS3 if you want to bypass all the ms phone home angst. If you don't plan on many plugins though the Zee2 get lots of accolades and might be something to consider.

I am glad you asked this question since the resulting discussion has been fairly informative. I am probably going to try the program claude suggested (NSSM) for running a remote Kinect plugin as a service.

[cesarvog]

I think you are spot on with respect to security and win10. Though keep in mind Win 10 phones home even without users logged in. I think your plan to not dedicate a computer for HS3 though is not a good plan. If cost is an issue there are solutions such as the zee2, or a cheap atom based computer (Zotac Liva for example). Also, there is the Linux version of HS3 if you want to bypass all the ms phone home angst. If you don't plan on many plugins though the Zee2 get lots of accolades and might be something to consider.

I am glad you asked this question since the resulting discussion has been fairly informative. I am probably going to try the program claude suggested (NSSM) for running a remote Kinect plugin as a service.

Thanks for your contribution to this discussion, much appreciated. Many thanks also to the others mentioning other ideas. This enriches the conversation and is what I enjoy the most from such communities.

I do have a Zee2. It was my first homeseer purchase when I decided to try homeseer coming from a Veralite. It worked perfectly and was a great introduction to the homeseer universe. I specially enjoyed the ability to run it from a 5V battery used to provide additional power to smartphones. This, and a USB wifi card allowed me to carry the Zee2 near my wall switches in order to initially add such devices to homeseer.

A few months later, I seized the black Friday sale opportunity and licensed HS3 Std. and HSTouch designer.

Even though I was aiming to eventually have HS3 running on Windows, I decided to give a try to the HS3 Std. linux version, for learning purposes.

I'm an IT professional and love to learn everything related to computers, networks, operating systems, automation, etc.

To achieve that, I used a different RaspberryPi2 I had lying around (from a previous learning experience), onto which I successfully installed Debian and the HS3 Std. Linux port. I then migrated the data folder from the Zee2 to the new HS3 Linux install. The whole experience was fun and informative. Thanks to both "rmasonjr" and "Pete" for helping me out.

I also have BlueIris (running as a service...) on a Windows 10 computer that is on 24/7/365. As mentioned, my plan was to eventually move the HS3 Linux install to the same Windows 10 Pro computer, a move I finally made last week. The single purpose is to simplify my environment, having less cables, less power consumption (I know it's negligible, but the environment thanks me) and less systems to administer. Additionally, I thought that, since HS3 is developed natively in Windows, I was better off running it natively, and not on top of a somewhat old Mono version as required for the Linux install. Finally, I noticed a few differences between the Zee2 install and the Linux install. I foresaw some other differences might lie ahead once running in Windows, imagining that the Windows version would probably have the whole complete set of features.

So, I must admit I was shocked to learn that the Windows version does not have the ability to run as a service. I could probably see this coming, had I searched this forum before, but it really never crossed my mind. I mentally dismissed any possible doubt I had, mostly because of the very nature of the product as an automation tool...

I've been MCSE since 1994 and have run across all types of software products. The vast majority of similar automation tools have this ability, so my previous experience may have played a part on that misjudgment.

Anyway, I now have to decide whether to leave it like it is now and use a 3rd party tool as the afore mentioned ones, or return to the Zee2 and call it a day. I will probably just leave it for a few days, first.

EDIT: Just remembered that, prior to trying installing HS3 on the RaspberryPI2, I also tried running it on a Mac running Yosemite (or maybe it was already El Captain, can't remember). It almost worked... Even though I had Mono installed and functioning, HS3 for Linux did not run perfectly. I was able to have the dashboard load and all, but once I tried opening the system log via the web page, it would put on an error and never show the log. I tried different versions of Mono with the same outcome and eventually called the quits.

EDIT2: I just found this thread: http://board.homeseer.com/showthread...ht=run+service
Other users frustration is visible. Auto-login is prevalent. Some "solutions" to the problem even involve diminishing Windows built-in security features, like lowering UAC settings to it's lowest level. If I was responsible for the development of this product, no doubt I would do my best to meet my end users needs. But, that's just me... Let's stop covering this with a veil and call it what it is: Every idea so far is a less than optimal forced solution caused by a misjudgment in software design. Period.