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    #31
    I just use Startup Delayer. It's a little free piece of software that works like Task Scheduler but allows you to delay the startup of applications in Windows and then it automatically will start the application, like HS3/4. It works great and I just set my start up to delay one minute once windows is starting up it allows a minute to remove the load all the other apps starting up first. Of course your PC will need to auto logon user name and password first then let it rip, a minute or so later you'll see Homeseer cranking up.

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      #32
      What seems to be a very simple task appears to be very complicated in Windows 10. I have tried all means (no 3rd party) of auto start up with out success, except for using a .bat file in the common/user startup. I also tried with UAC completely off ,UAC needs to be off anyway, and that did not change anything. I had UAC on to see if an attempt was being made and something was stopping it. That wasn't the case.

      I have tried a working shortcut in both the current user and also common startup's with no luck.

      The All Users Startup Folder:
      C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp

      The Current User Startup Folder:
      C:\Users\[User Name]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup

      I have tried adding a string entry in the auto run of the registry
      HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion \Run

      The only thing that did work was a bat file in the startup folder (either one), the down side of that is a cmd windows stays active while HSx is running.

      file contents:
      @"C:\Program Files (x86)\HomeSeer HS3\HS3.exe"
      @exit

      I am very glad that netplwiz still works for auto logon. But I do not understand why some Win 10 OS's work and others don't with the startup folder thing.

      EDIT: Running Win 10 Pro 1909.
      -Skybolt

      Comment


        #33
        skybolt Have you tried the steps described in the 2 posts that I have automated? It is working for me with Windows 10 Pro with the latest updates. I finished the scripts to automate the steps yesterday evening, and today a Windows update requiring a restart was installed. Everything looks good: graceful shutdown and automatic launch after the reboot:

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          #34
          Disabling UAC is the same as removing the dead-bolt from your front-door. You might as well leave the door wide open then.

          I've got UAC fully active, and there is no problem to get HomeSeer to auto-start within Windows via the default methods available.

          HomeSeer simply needs write access to the "C:\Program Files (x86)\HomeSeer HS3" (or HS4) folder. If it was written with UAC in mind then it would have started to rely on the special "C:\ProgramData" folder (or C:\Users folder), which is specifically designed for that. It is not difficult to adjust ACL permissions on the folder to allow the `Everyone` user-group within Windows read/write/etc. permissions. This gets around any UAC prompt for elevated admin-rights, but the problem that Rich/devs ran into is that HomeSeer also needs low-level access to hardware, such as Z-Wave USB controller. This can also all be configured correct, but it ends up asking a lot of knowledge from the end-user.

          Easier is to just keep asking for administrator execution permissions, which is what HomeSeer devs opted for.

          Problem is to auto-start an application that way, but the default Windows Task Scheduler has no problem doing this.

          However, there is another issue and that is that HomeSeer needs to be executed at the right time for all device access and APIs to become available. The ideal time is AFTER Windows is normally booted and showing the desktop screen to the end-user.

          Not a problem. Configure Windows to allow the system to boot into desktop by supplying `netplwiz` with the password (which is stored perfectly safe in the encrypted storage container), and this will allow Windows to fully boot into desktop upon startup. Then you add a task to the Task Scheduler to launch HomeSeer with administrator execute permissions after logon (which is when desktop shows), and Bob's your uncle.

          The only difference is that HomeSeer will launch as a background application and does not show a traybar icon. Considering most of us control everything via web-interface and I've never once had a need to use the traybar app options that shouldn't be a problem.

          Then if you want to re-add some level of security, just add another Task Scheduler task that logs the user out of Windows again.

          From a security point of view the criminal would need to have:
          1. physical access to the HomeSeer system that is in a somewhat secluded area in the house
          2. in my case connect a monitor to it (as it is headless)
          3. connect mouse/keyboard
          4. be quick enough to abort the automatic logoff process (SSD based system is pretty blazing fast)

          When they already gained physical access to the house supposedly with much more valuable items between entry point and the area the HomeSeer PC is at.

          No criminal in their right mind will go to those lengths to gain access to a system that doesn't really allow them to do much to begin with.

          This worked on Windows 10 Home, Windows 10 Pro, 1809, 1903, 1908, and I've been on 2004 for almost four months now.
          Click image for larger version

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          Main NUC runs on Windows 10 Pro, version 2004 (build 19041.508), auto-restarted for updates again early this morning (Second Tuesday of the month creeps up fast) during a time-frame that I don't rely on automated processes in a critical fashion and fully recovered with HomeSeer ready to run events/scenes when I woke up again.

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            #35
            Originally posted by RoChess View Post
            Disabling UAC is the same as removing the dead-bolt from your front-door. You might as well leave the door wide open then.

            I've got UAC fully active, and there is no problem to get HomeSeer to auto-start within Windows via the default methods available. ...
            Yes you are correct. I should have stated before I posted that, this was just an exercise in why the Startup folder works for some and not others.

            I don't use those methods to run HS at startup. I use task scheduler with elevated rights and netplwiz to logon. As you state it works flawlessly. I also keep UAC at the default level.

            I still don't get why the Startup folder doesn't work for some, including myself. The reg run didn't work either, I use to use that entry to auto-launch apps, but in Win 7 etc.

            -Skybolt

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by skybolt View Post
              I still don't get why the Startup folder doesn't work for some, including myself. The reg run didn't work either, I use to use that entry to auto-launch apps, but in Win 7 etc.
              Windows 7 had one startup folder location for most users, two if you are crafty.

              Windows 10 has 3+ locations for each user.

              Each folder comes with its own UAC/ACL permissions and is executed at different times.

              Most likely you are launching it too quickly, and things are not in a ready state yet; review on detailed Event Logs should have revealed that to you. Of course proper logging depends on the application to do this as well and considering HomeSeer was written without UAC/ACL in mind, that might be lacking as well. There is still ways to get it then, but you would be digging deep under the hood of Windows and kinda need to know what you are looking for, especially when on an average fully functional system those trace logs contain a ton of errors from other "bad" code.

              I sometimes work on large scale projects and have to convince the developers to remove errors when their response is to "ohh just ignore those and filter them out, i cannot be bothered to not show those errors". Keep in mind that hiding some errors is indeed painful, such as TypeScript errors, but many are often just left. There are many funny blog articles explaining errors left in code on purpose, because the new developers don't understand the code and don't want to break functionality by changing it. The comment lines in those projects, especially when they are open-sourced and we can view them, are outright funny.

              Can't find the one that links to open-source projects on GitHub, but you get the idea @ https://loudprogrammer.net/best-comm...r-encountered/

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by RoChess View Post
                ... Windows 10 has 3+ locations for each user.

                Each folder comes with its own UAC/ACL permissions and is executed at different times. ...
                Did not know there were three folders, only know about the two mentioned above. You may be right about it starting too soon. I will look at that next time I look at this. Thanks.
                -Skybolt

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by skybolt View Post
                  Did not know there were three folders, only know about the two mentioned above. You may be right about it starting too soon. I will look at that next time I look at this. Thanks.
                  Things get interesting when you dig deep, and you probably have the following on your system (Except on N-version where XBox app isn't installed by default):

                  Folder locations:
                  • "%APPDATA%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup"
                  • "%ALLUSERSPROFILE%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup"
                  • "C:\Users\Default\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Star t Menu\Programs\Startup" (only gets executed under certain conditions, otherwise it acts as a template for when you create a new user profile)
                  • "%LOCALAPPDATA%\Packages\Microsoft.XboxGamingOverlay_8we kyb3 d8bbwe\LocalCache\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup"
                  Registry:
                  • \HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion \Run
                  • \HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersio n\Run
                  • \HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\Microsoft\Windows\C urrentVersion\Run
                  SysInternals (now owned by Microsoft) has an awesome tool to give you quick insight into that @ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...loads/autoruns

                  Placing shortcut to HS3/HS4 in "%APPDATA%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup" is the most appropriate location if that is the user account that logs in automatic into Windows and you have UAC de-activated, but you then still need to adjust the shortcut to launch HS3/HS4 as an administrator. Also you might need to launch the Speaker client separate to avoid issues.

                  I personally prefer the Task Scheduler method, but there are countless of other methods, but each will come with their own pro/cons and that all ties into the underlying reasons why HomeSeer needs those administrative permissions.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Bigstevep View Post
                    I just use Startup Delayer. It's a little free piece of software that works like Task Scheduler but allows you to delay the startup of applications in Windows and then it automatically will start the application, like HS3/4. It works great and I just set my start up to delay one minute once windows is starting up it allows a minute to remove the load all the other apps starting up first. Of course your PC will need to auto logon user name and password first then let it rip, a minute or so later you'll see Homeseer cranking up.
                    Tried allot of other Tech...None worked as well, Pfft , This was the Easiest and Best solution for me Startup Delayer. After auto login of user it fires off the Speaker client, Then 60 Seconds later HS3.exe Works great and its FREE..

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by 22v10 View Post

                      Tried allot of other Tech...None worked as well, Pfft , This was the Easiest and Best solution for me Startup Delayer. After auto login of user it fires off the Speaker client, Then 60 Seconds later HS3.exe Works great and its FREE..
                      Glad to here it works for you! I’ve been using it for over a year with no issues and no screwing around with regedit etc. Next thing to do is set up your PC to restart automatically from a AC power failure In the bios. This way if power is cut off and comes back on your PC will start up and when windows starts up so will HS3/HS4.

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                        #41
                        i just dropped a .bat file into the all users startup folder and it works.

                        I too was trying many other options like a few run keys, task scheduler, etc..

                        i do use autologon from MS
                        HW - i5 4570T @2.9ghz runs @11w | 8gb ram | 128gb ssd OS - Win10 x64

                        HS - HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435

                        Plugins - BLRF 2.0.94.0 | Concord 4 3.1.13.10 | HSBuddy 3.9.605.5 | HSTouch Server 3.0.0.68 | RFXCOM 30.0.0.36 | X10 3.0.0.36 | Z-Wave 3.0.1.190

                        Hardware - EdgePort/4 DB9 Serial | RFXCOM 433MHz USB Transceiver | Superbus 2000 for Concord 4 | TI103 X-10 Interface | WGL Designs W800 RF | Z-Net Z-Wave Interface

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                          #42
                          Just another +1 for startup delayer. Easy to use and works great and it's free.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Rubber_Boot View Post
                            Maybe this video will help.

                            I have been a customer of Homeseer for 4 years and I could not speak more highly of them. Their product is ultra-reliable and does not need to be connected to the internet to work. Since I wrote this posting Homeseer posted a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6mmLKPrmXU to help you start from a cold boot.
                            Thanks for posting. It has been working for me except that it seems to prevent Chrome from opening when I actually login. I have to kill the task in task manager and manually restart to get chrome to open a browser. (Win7 pc). Does it work just as well on HS4? Thanks.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by ServiceXp View Post
                              The Windows "restart" issue can easily be solve by shutting down HS3 using the following.

                              It works in every type of shutdown I've tried.

                              1) Create a new .txt file and add this: "taskkill /IM HS3.exe"
                              2) Save and rename with extension .cmd
                              3) Using: gpedit.msc Navigate to User Configuration >> Windows Settings >> Scripts | (Logon/Logoff)
                              4) Double click on Logoff and add the path of the .cmd file you created.

                              That's it. Windows will always logoff user(s) before restarting windows. and since HS3 will only start when a user logs on, problem solved.

                              I still find @Rubber_Boot' s solution the best native Windows solution we have, as it's the only solution that I've found that allows .aspx pages to be served up correctly.

                              NOTE: You will want to add this to Computer Configuration also.
                              Any ideas? I wrote the script and tested, got this back (using pause to debug):
                              ________________________________________
                              taskkill /IM HS4Sentry.exe
                              pause
                              taskkill /IM HS4.exe
                              pause
                              ________________________________________
                              C:\Windows\system32>taskkill /IM HS4Sentry.exe
                              ERROR: The process "HS4Sentry.exe" with PID 1816 could not be terminated.
                              Reason: This process can only be terminated forcefully (with /F option).

                              C:\Windows\system32>pause
                              Press any key to continue . . .

                              C:\Windows\system32>taskkill /IM HS4.exe
                              ERROR: The process "HS4.exe" with PID 11500 could not be terminated.
                              Reason: This process can only be terminated forcefully (with /F option).

                              C:\Windows\system32>pause
                              Press any key to continue . . .
                              ________________________________________

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by aimless View Post
                                Any ideas? I wrote the script and tested, got this back (using pause to debug):
                                The answer is pretty much in the response, just add /F to it, so use:

                                taskkill /F /IM HS4Sentry.exe
                                pause
                                taskkill /F /IM HS4.exe
                                pause

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