Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Abandoned 3P Plugins... OpenSource them :)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • alexbk66
    replied
    Originally posted by Ltek View Post
    I suspect the HST team doesnt read these threads, and it unfortunate... it could be that by the time they realize they are obsolete, it will be too late.
    Yeah, remember what happen to Nokia?

    Click image for larger version

Name:	2018-11-12.png
Views:	8
Size:	46.5 KB
ID:	1258861

    Leave a comment:


  • Ltek
    replied
    Michael, I was an avid user and a 'light' code contributor back in the 1.x days and remember you well, and respect your contributions.

    I disagree with you on one point... making abandoned plugins/code open source would take little to no effort on HSTs part and should be done, without question, for the betterment of the community.

    This will become more relevant in near-future (~2 years) as Homeseer will become increasingly niche and user base will decline... its likely to become the HA software equivalent of X10 Hardware.

    As it stands today, Homeseer will not be a compelling software and compete with entire platforms/echosystems like: OpenHAB, Home Assistant, Smartthings, Google Home & Amazon Alexa, Wink, or whatever comes next will take over the entire market (soccer moms to DIY power-users).

    HST needs to think very hard and make much smarter decisions than they did in the past... they need to figure out quickly:
    1. How to exit gracefully in 3-5 years
    or
    2. How they will make it compelling for current users to stay and for new users to join.

    I suspect the HST team doesnt ready these threads, and it unfortunate... it could be that by the time they realize they are obsolete, it will be too late.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael McSharry
    replied

    Leave a comment:


  • mitchmitchell1616
    replied
    I created a plugin that I knew I was not going to have time to maintain so I open sourced it on sourceforge. I don't know how many people use it or if anyone modified it but I thought if I couldn't keep it up let others have at it. But I came no where close to putting the time into it that many others have put in theirs so I can't judge a plugin author for not open sourcing something the can't maintain. I certainly have no problem with anyone making money off their hard work either.

    I do wish Homeseer would put as much effort into providing a plugin development framework as they have into things like HSTouch etc. If they made it easy to create plugins it would pay off in spades -- e.g. I spent most of the effort creating my plugin puzzling out the Homeseer interfaces than actually coding it to talk with the hardware, that was the easy part.

    Leave a comment:


  • mminehan
    replied
    I agree with the sentiments of the OP. Many plugins relate to a specific piece of hardware. The decision to purchase the hardware is often swayed by the fact that there is a HS plugin availble. And many plugins operate the hardware via an API.

    It's not uncommon for the API to change requiring an update of the plugin. All fine while the plugin is being supported. But if the plugin developer ghosts then the hardware effectivey becomes useless. So not just the cost of the plugin, but time and money dealing with unusable hardware.

    In the commercial world most bespoke software contracts have source code clauses should the develooper go bust or die etc. I can't imagine it would be difficult for HS have a source code clause as part of being an 'agent' for the plugins. A kind of source code escrow.

    Source code escrow: "Source code escrow is the deposit of the source code of software with a third party escrow agent. Escrow is typically requested by a party licensing software (the licensee), to ensure maintenance of the software instead of abandonment or orphaning. The software source code is released to the licensee if the licensor files for bankruptcy or otherwise fails to maintain and update the software as promised in the software license agreement."

    I do think it is irresponsible to be selling, and profiting from, unsupported plugins. Either supply the source code as part of the purchase, clearly stating it is unsupported, or stop selling the unsupported plugin.

    Leave a comment:


  • S-F
    replied
    Originally posted by Ltek View Post
    Documents are buried in the forum if they exist, the HS plugin manager and website plugin are both amateur hour providing no info on functionality, no screenshot, etc. Can't even search in the installer or easily install external plugins in the UI

    I've been in technical product mgmt and strategies for years... I'm amazed that HST hasn't matured in the decade I've been away.

    Nobody can argue with any of that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ltek
    replied
    I didn't know about the family thing. Completely understand

    As I try to navigate Homeseer, it's difficult to figure out what plugins do... Documents are buried in the forum if they exist, the HS plugin manager and website plugin are both amateur hour providing no info on functionality, no screenshot, etc. Can't even search in the installer or easily install external plugins in the UI

    I've been in technical product mgmt and strategies for years... I'm amazed that HST hasn't matured in the decade I've been away.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • S-F
    replied
    Blade puts a TON of energy into his plugins. The thing is he has about a million of them so it can take time for him to get around to the one you may be interested in. He has also expressed interest in opening the source for some plugins as it's a ton of work maintaining them. If you'd like to take one over that doesn't see as much attention as others I'd suggest you contact him. Also, as has been mentioned here already, he is in the midst of a family crisis.

    Leave a comment:


  • sirmeili
    replied
    Originally posted by Ltek View Post
    I've found a few, the two I'm personally interested in are Scene Master and BLDenon (and other Blade Plugins) I'm sure there are more, I'm just starting to explore plugins
    Blade is very active, but as he has stated he has some personal stuff that is preventing him being active the last month or so. He has a thread called "availability" in his main forum here. Blade actually puts in a ton of time to fix bug for people (not that he is alone in this).

    As to scene master, I agree, but I tried it for a month and though I probably would have bought it, I opted not to for lack of a response by the dev. It sucks it was abandoned, but I'm not sure how many people used it.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • Ltek
    replied
    I've found a few, the two I'm personally interested in are Scene Master and BLDenon (and other Blade Plugins) I'm sure there are more, I'm just starting to explore plugins

    Leave a comment:


  • S-F
    replied
    I don't even think that HST has the source for most of the plugins.


    Which plugins for HS3 are you seeing as abandoned? I find that all of the ones I use are updated from time to time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ltek
    replied
    That might be true but it is not a reason to justify allowing plugins to die.
    Many time I have taken code that was a mess and made it better and also added functionality.
    A decade ago I made a large web/script set called HACT for Homeseer v1. 7... I have a been asked for it a hundred times since then. A few times even over 10 years after releasing it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • happnatious1
    replied
    Just because source code gets released doesn't mean someone will pickup where the previous developer left off. Take the windows media player plugin that Homeseer open sourced for instance. Mrhappy and I both looked at it and tried to figure out how it worked. It might as well have been written in ancient sandscript. God help the person that sees the source code for my monoprice amp plugin even I'm not sure how it works.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ltek
    replied
    Originally posted by sirmeili View Post
    @davros
    I think you will find it hard to HST to set up any kind of terms stating that if a developer hasn't supported a plugin for X amount of time, the source is released by HST. This would require developers to release their source code to HST and I don't think developers nor HST really care to have to manage that.
    My thought is since HST is taking a cut of the plugin price, and making it available through their store, they should have this obligation. And if a plugin developer wants to make a large sum of money per license then they should agree to release source code if they stop supporting it.

    Since this is a small ecosystem and HST is massively dependent on plugins for their existence, they should take a larger role in doing whats right for the community - as if their income depends on it, it does - I just dont think they get it and may not until its too late for them.

    <thought bubble>

    I remember what Homeseer was like in the v1.x days ... huge community giving to each other freely for the benefit of all.

    Homeseer still has some of this but the I saw Rich's attitude change with v2 release.

    While recently many moved to HS from Vera; it is ONLY because Vera is unstable but just as capable as HS otherwise - and alternates (OpenHAB, Home Assistant, Smarthings) aren't there yet without tinkering. But maybe even more Vera users moved to those. Those communities remind me of the old HS1 days.

    Those others will reach a point soon (1-2 yrs), baring any revolutionary improvements in HS, they will all best HS. Those have fast development with many contributors, the openness attracts more users and devs frequently, device support is very good, and plugins are free.
    ... it will be interesting to see what happens with HST.

    I clearly see whats coming. Recently I've dug into Vera, Homeseer 3, Home Assistant, OpenHAB, and become internal tester for a commercial system that is not yet released.

    Its going to be a fun 2 yrs in the HA biz...

    </thought bubble>

    Leave a comment:


  • mrhappy
    replied
    Originally posted by rmasonjr View Post
    I have a document drafted for my wife for when I pass. It lists passwords, accounts, etc.
    One portion is what to do with my paid plugins. I have the plugins in bitbucket (git) and instructions on who to send the password to.
    No way I would open source mine...

    Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge using Tapatalk
    I'm somewhat reminded of this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_of_last_resort ! Let's hope it does not come to that for anyone here any time soon.

    I agree, I'm reluctant to open source mine (I might decide to release the source for some of them), there is zero to stop plagiarism and the next person earning money from you.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X