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    Had Enough ? Going back to HS3

    After almost fifteen years as a Homeseer user, it looks like it's time to "throw in the towel". My primary usage of Homeseer is thru my desktop and HSTouch screens. The new HS4 GUI and grouping strategies are just not working out. I've tried using the workarounds from Jon00 and really appreciate his efforts, but it creates more and more of a " kluge" and is not a real solution. And sorting things on a browser is impossible.

    HS4 is being built for an audience which doesn't seem to include me.

    Am I the only one who has given up? Hate to throw away years of work (16 plugins, 100 Zwave nodes, 1wire network, multiple screens, lots of scripts and many more) but this is driving me crazy. So the real question is a) different vendor, or b) just freeze my installation ?

    Would appreciate other folks views since this forum has been so valuable for a lot of years.

    Thanks, Bruce

    Okay - seems like I kicked off a lot of discussion. So let me add a few thoughts based on what has come in.
    a) My environment is a large single story home with a server room. Custom built water cooled computers, 10G fiber optics, five screens on my desk, mostly Windows with Apple and Echo devices in various locations. Certainly not the most sophisticated setup, but not really a "mobile" orientation. I do come in remotely a lot thru my DNS service. Consider my self an "early adopter" and after 30+ yrs in the IT business - really love technology!
    b) Building HSTouch screens is okay for certain rooms, but my desire is for "at a glance" desktop capability. Have been unable to look at things FUNCTIONALLY. And sort all 450+ devices by name within functions. Have tried multiple naming schemes using locations, categories and device names Don't have a need to see ( for instance) the root device, notifications, or battery, etc when I lookdown the list at lock status with controls under the function of security.
    c) have had no issues with HS4 from a stability of function standpoint. Cost is not a big concern. Screen sizing is currently not very helpful.
    d) have used many of the workarounds for breaking apart parent/child, using old HS3 screens, etc - stiil a mess.
    e) it really, really goes against the grain to think about recessing to an older product and being "stuck" in a back dated, non supported version of anything. Hence, my frustration.

    Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and ideas.
    Last edited by brsanders; August 25, 2021, 07:16 AM. Reason: Some feedback on responses to my post.

    #2
    If HS3 was working for you then you should go back.

    Comment


      #3
      The main thing that bothers me is that HS4 feels like a beta product when we all spent lots of money upgrading to it.

      Comment


        #4
        Have you reached out to support?

        Comment


          #5
          I feel your pain....I took forever to make the plunge to HS4, our use cases are very similar.

          Unfortunately I have upgraded a bunch of old zwave devices, to newer zwave plus ones, so going back to HS3 is not an option. I have to just tough it out....and hope common sense prevalis.
          HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 (Windows 10 vmware)
          BLOccupied:,UltraNetCam3:,weatherXML:,RFXCOM:,Current Cost 3P:,UltraGCIR3:
          DMMQTT:,Kodi:,Z-Wave:,BLRadar:,EasyTrigger:,MySensors:,BLBackup:

          Comment


            #6
            I ran HS4 in a RPi in parallel with HS3 before I made the transition about a year ago. There's still some cases where I find myself going WTH? but for the most part I've gotten comfortable with the new UI. There's no excuse for missing features in the UI, like not being able to filter events by device reference, but I've seen posts from Rich indicating that those are being addressed.

            As a side note, i only use a desktop browser. My desktop has a 35 in ultra-wide monitor, so a phone or tablet screen looks like postage stamp to me.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by brsanders View Post
              After almost fifteen years as a Homeseer user, it looks like it's time to "throw in the towel". My primary usage of Homeseer is thru my desktop and HSTouch screens. The new HS4 GUI and grouping strategies are just not working out. I've tried using the workarounds from Jon00 and really appreciate his efforts, but it creates more and more of a " kluge" and is not a real solution. And sorting things on a browser is impossible.

              HS4 is being built for an audience which doesn't seem to include me.

              Am I the only one who has given up? Hate to throw away years of work (16 plugins, 100 Zwave nodes, 1wire network, multiple screens, lots of scripts and many more) but this is driving me crazy. So the real question is a) different vendor, or b) just freeze my installation ?

              Would appreciate other folks views since this forum has been so valuable for a lot of years.

              Thanks, Bruce
              Why use a browser at all if you have HSTouch?
              I only use the browser for events and checking the log, stuff like that, but I gave up on using a browser for control. I have HSTouch as well and just use it on desktops.

              Comment


                #8
                I'm pretty much in the same boat. HS4 seems to be designed to work for a group of which I am not a member, so I'm still with HS3. Lot's of promised fixes and additions, but let's be honest, HS4 is almost 2 years old. Staying with HS3 forever seems to be ensuring that it will reach the end of life on HST terms, not user terms. No roadmap. No Bugzilla. The promise of an HSTouch Designer coming that obsoletes all existing screens. All of the chaos leaves the user wondering what the best course of action is or will be. Making an informed decision requires information, something we don't have a lot of. Sigh...
                HomeSeer Version: HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548
                Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - Work Station

                Enabled Plug-Ins
                3.0.0.6: AK Smart Device 3.0.1.9: AmbientWeather 2.0.63.0: BLBackup 3.0.55.0: BLGData 3.0.38.0: BLLock 2.0.26.0: BLUPS 3.2.0.1: Device History 3.0.0.73: EasyTrigger 3.25.614.1: HSBuddy 3.1.0.22: MeiHarmonyHub 3.1.0.2: SDJ-Health 19.10.7.1: TPLinkSmartHome 3.0.6681.34300: UltraCID3 3.0.6644.26753: UltraLog3 3.0.6554.33094: UltraMon3 3.0.5960.36744: UltraSighthoundVideo3 3.0.7806.23606: UltraWeatherWU3 3.0.2.0: Z-Wave

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by kenm View Post
                  I ran HS4 in a RPi in parallel with HS3 before I made the transition about a year ago. There's still some cases where I find myself going WTH? but for the most part I've gotten comfortable with the new UI. There's no excuse for missing features in the UI, like not being able to filter events by device reference, but I've seen posts from Rich indicating that those are being addressed.

                  As a side note, I only use a desktop browser. My desktop has a 35 in ultra-wide monitor, so a phone or tablet screen looks like postage stamp to me.
                  I for one find HS4 to be super stable. I use the search box under events to find events with devices in them. I don't recall the sorting from HS3.
                  HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 (Windows Server 8.1 on ESXi box)

                  Plug-Ins Enabled:
                  Z-Wave:,RaspberryIO:,AirplaySpeak:,Ecobee:,
                  weatherXML:,JowiHue:,APCUPSD:,PHLocation:,Chromecast:,EasyTr igger:

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by dmurphy View Post
                    I feel your pain....I took forever to make the plunge to HS4, our use cases are very similar.

                    Unfortunately I have upgraded a bunch of old zwave devices, to newer zwave plus ones, so going back to HS3 is not an option. I have to just tough it out....and hope common sense prevalis.
                    Could you elaborate on the relationship between Z-Wave plus and HS3? I was not aware that a ZNet plugged into a HS3 system supported anything different from a ZNet plugged into a HS4 system. (My ZNet is still on my HS3 system so I don't know what I'm missing with Z-Wave on HS4)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by upstatemike View Post

                      Could you elaborate on the relationship between Z-Wave plus and HS3? I was not aware that a ZNet plugged into a HS3 system supported anything different from a ZNet plugged into a HS4 system. (My ZNet is still on my HS3 system so I don't know what I'm missing with Z-Wave on HS4)
                      Maybe I got this wrong but the zwave db is stored/backed-up in HS filesystem. Plus all the events in HS4 that got updated as you remove the old device and add a new device. It's a pretty painless procedure to swap out a device, but the updates only exist in the HS4 tree, the HS3 version still points to old devices that don't exist. I swapped out over 15 devices.
                      HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 (Windows 10 vmware)
                      BLOccupied:,UltraNetCam3:,weatherXML:,RFXCOM:,Current Cost 3P:,UltraGCIR3:
                      DMMQTT:,Kodi:,Z-Wave:,BLRadar:,EasyTrigger:,MySensors:,BLBackup:

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Do you guys care for the betas as they put them out...? Am sorry that I may be the only one who refuse to use HomeSeer as a GUI but as an automation server...I guess am doing something wrong...else don't go comparing HS to HASS, the later is built on Python (If that adds to the complexity...bite me!) and not to mention the size of the number of devs (HST) compared to (HASS Community)
                        • Can you run it your way while you wait (I always run the latest beta) for things to get fixed..? If you take a crack at building your own GUIs the back-end doesn't have to look pretty for as long it does the automation...Yes there is continuous improvement for what you paid for but is there any room for manoeuvre?


                        Eman.
                        TinkerLand : Life's Choices,"No One Size Fits All"

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Eman View Post
                          Do you guys care for the betas as they put them out...? Am sorry that I may be the only one who refuse to use HomeSeer as a GUI but as an automation server...I guess am doing something wrong...else don't go comparing HS to HASS, the later is built on Python (If that adds to the complexity...bite me!) and not to mention the size of the number of devs (HST) compared to (HASS Community)
                          • Can you run it your way while you wait (I always run the latest beta) for things to get fixed..? If you take a crack at building your own GUIs the back-end doesn't have to look pretty for as long it does the automation...Yes there is continuous improvement for what you paid for but is there any room for manoeuvre?


                          Eman.
                          It sounds like you're angry about something but I'm not sure what or why? If you don't use the HS4 GUI, how do you manage plugins, create devices, create events, etc? For quick status pages, I use Jon00's Web Page Builder and lately HSTiles. Most of my system is event driven with a small amount of manual control. For manual control I use HomeKit via Homebridge and a controls page using HSTiles. I stopped using HSTouch when the iOS app starting freezing up every other day or so.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by kenm View Post

                            It sounds like you're angry about something but I'm not sure what or why? If you don't use the HS4 GUI, how do you manage plugins, create devices, create events, etc? For quick status pages, I use Jon00's Web Page Builder and lately HSTiles. Most of my system is event driven with a small amount of manual control. For manual control I use HomeKit via Homebridge and a controls page using HSTiles. I stopped using HSTouch when the iOS app starting freezing up every other day or so.
                            No,
                            Am not the one who is angry if you have read all the previous posts above mine.
                            • If you follow up on my posts it seems that am the one who is always defending HomeSeer and to some I have become obnoxious that they skip read what I post.
                            • And no, am deeply involved (even though am not a coder) when it comes to automation and have a crazy system which is interlinked...HomeSeer, JeeDOM, ioBroker, NEEO and Node-RED with MQTT in the mix
                            • I can't say am the best GUI designer but I can say that I have done some cool stuff with HSTouch and Home Remote

                            All work unfinished but functional because often times the systems need no input...(AUTOMATED)

                            Click image for larger version  Name:	Home Remote 2.png Views:	0 Size:	328.5 KB ID:	1491211


                            Click image for larger version  Name:	HSTouch Screens.png Views:	0 Size:	444.5 KB ID:	1491212





                            Eman.
                            TinkerLand : Life's Choices,"No One Size Fits All"

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by kenm View Post

                              It sounds like you're angry about something but I'm not sure what or why? If you don't use the HS4 GUI, how do you manage plugins, create devices, create events, etc? For quick status pages, I use Jon00's Web Page Builder and lately HSTiles. Most of my system is event driven with a small amount of manual control. For manual control I use HomeKit via Homebridge and a controls page using HSTiles. I stopped using HSTouch when the iOS app starting freezing up every other day or so.
                              I agree with @Demusman - I use HSTouch for any manual control when needed.

                              With regard to plug-in management, I rarely have to use those screens because everything runs fine without intervention. If the need arises, the HS4 UI is ok. If something there is quirky, the legacy view is still available.

                              The device screen is a different story - there's a ton of wasted real estate there. The search function helps to a degree, but if really needed (again, almost all manual control goes through HSTouch), then the legacy screen is available.

                              I guess I'm confused. Yeah, nothing is ever going to be perfect for everyone, there is always going to be a compromise somewhere.

                              Just not sure why one would scrap the whole thing right now. Even if one did, I suspect the compromises and maintenance required necessary on another platform would be far greater.

                              Just my $0.02

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