Z-Wave and Zigbee for Insteon users....

[Jon]

As a longtime Insteon user, I'm a bit behind on the other technologies like Z-Wave and Zigbee and how they work. At this point i'm just researching my options for moving forward with a new/different technology. Not necessarily looking to forklift what i already have in place and is still working well. But I've got a few questions that I haven't found concise answers to so far.

1. I think that Z-Wave and Zigbee both need hubs or interfaces to work. Are these hubs standalone devices that HS communicates with like a protocol converter of sorts? Or are they a communication accessory for the HS machine? Is it more like an insteon hub or a PLM?
2. Are there different styles of these hubs where some are direct attached to the HS machine, vs a device that sits elsewhere on the network? My HS server is virtualized. I don't have the ability to attach serial or USB devices directly to it. I need an IP addressable interface device.
3. Do you have to use the built in logic and automation of the hubs, or can you just use it as a technology interface and do all the automation in HS?
4. Do the wall switches perform well in steel wall boxes? Here in the Chicago area, all of our electrical boxes and conduit are steel. Most of my faceplates are steel as well. Insteon works well. I'm skeptical about RF-only solutions.
5. Do Z-Wave and Zigbee have an equivalent to insteon links where you can have virtual 3 way switches and each switch stays in sync? If so, how do you configure this?
6. Which brand makes products that are the most similar to insteon dimmer switches? Mostly with regard to look and feel. Simple decora style paddle, and an LED indicator for dim level. I don't want to have different style buttons and such around the house.

[Rupp]

As a longtime Insteon user, I'm a bit behind on the other technologies like Z-Wave and Zigbee and how they work. At this point i'm just researching my options for moving forward with a new/different technology. Not necessarily looking to forklift what i already have in place and is still working well. But I've got a few questions that I haven't found concise answers to so far.

1. I think that Z-Wave and Zigbee both need hubs or interfaces to work. Are these hubs standalone devices that HS communicates with like a protocol converter of sorts? Or are they a communication accessory for the HS machine? Is it more like an insteon hub or a PLM?
   It depends on which Z-Wave/Zigbee interface you choose but this USB device interfaces to both Z-Wave and Zigbee.
   https://shop.homeseer.com/collection...wave-interface
2. Are there different styles of these hubs where some are direct attached to the HS machine, vs a device that sits elsewhere on the network? My HS server is virtualized. I don't have the ability to attach serial or USB devices directly to it. I need an IP addressable interface device.
   Yes the Z-Net is a network Z-Wave interface that you can place any where on your network. Unfortunately it's back ordered currently.
   https://shop.homeseer.com/collection...41465146409135
3. Do you have to use the built in logic and automation of the hubs, or can you just use it as a technology interface and do all the automation in HS?
   You can just use HS4 logic for the previously mentioned interfaces
4. Do the wall switches perform well in steel wall boxes? Here in the Chicago area, all of our electrical boxes and conduit are steel. Most of my faceplates are steel as well. Insteon works well. I'm skeptical about RF-only solutions.
   They do not work as well as non steel boxes but being a mesh network you can make it work
5. Do Z-Wave and Zigbee have an equivalent to insteon links where you can have virtual 3 way switches and each switch stays in sync? If so, how do you configure this?
   I'm not familiar with how Insteon handles this but HS has the ability to link "like" devices.
6. Which brand makes products that are the most similar to insteon dimmer switches? Mostly with regard to look and feel. Simple decora style paddle, and an LED indicator for dim level. I don't want to have different style buttons and such around the house.
   I'm not all that familiar with Insteon switches.

...

[claude]

Start here. I have the HomeSeer SmartStick+ G3 USB Z-Wave Stick, which I know is not an option for your setup, but it works great.

After reading the melodrama a few years back on Z-wave, I was hesitant, but did not have a choice when I purchased a set of Z-wave friendly powered blinds.

Small learning curve with Z-wave. It's much mor convoluted than Insteon. But for my needs, it works.

[ksum]

I use z-wave and have a USB stick Interface. I used an extension cable to move the stick up away from my computer as that is under my stairs in my basement. I only extended it up to ceiling height. this was done primarily to get a signal to my garage, which has cinderblock, earth, and then a concrete floor between the computer and the devices there. This was originally done because I did not have many z-wave devices at the time and most were in the garage.

So a lot of words to say that you can use USB extension cable to move the USB interfaces if needed. As mentioned by Rupp, they are a Mesh device so poor signals can also be handled with additional units. In my early setup, these were plug-in modules which controlled nothing but were inexpensive. I still have them and use them for holiday displays.

I used the term Interface as opposed to Hub to differentiate that these are smaller units and not what I consider to be a Hub.

"They do not work as well as non steel boxes but being a mesh network you can make it work" Let's clarify this as I believe it makes things sound more difficult than they are. You make it work by having devices close enough to communicate in a mesh. If your Insteon devices could communicate, I suspect at least the z-wave ones would as they are close in radio frequency. Zigbee primarily operates at 2.4GHz, the same as your 2.4 WiFi.

All that said, you will see information stating z-wave is slow. Note that this is ONLY true for sensors which are running on battery and is due to some devices needing to wake up in order to send the signal and sometimes taking longer. Any sensor I have which is important for automations where speed is desirable (motion to turn a light on for example) are not batter powered.

[Dweber85rc]

If I were in your situation I would take a hardblook at the hubitat elevation hubs. They have both zwave and zigbee built in and there is a plugin to connect it to homeseer. And they are real close to the same price as a znet. I have no actual experience with them however.

[Jon]

If I were in your situation I would take a hardblook at the hubitat elevation hubs. They have both zwave and zigbee built in and there is a plugin to connect it to homeseer. And they are real close to the same price as a znet. I have no actual experience with them however.

I was looking at hubitat as an option. I don't have any plans of ditching homeseer as a automation platform. So it'd be used purely as an interface. I guess i should poke around in the subforum for that plugin to learn more. It would be interesting to hear from someone who's used both the hubitat and the znet and could compare the two.