Bali blinds

[Ltek]

I have an idea. The below is long but worth it - I think

Yes, there are 2 different methods - each with different benefits/results...

1. Events using the dimmer like a direct remote: a bit more "direct" / immediate but less accurate... shade level sync is based on length of button hold, and the speed of the HS & Zwave system to ensure the shades are the same level. Just like if using the Bali remote. But the shades rarely are in sync due to not setting a actual dim level, and zwave direct (what the remote uses) is all based on timing.

2. Events setting a dim level, like it is ad-hoc 'scene' : All the shades controlled will be the exact same level when set using that dimmer and/or an associated virtual device (like I use)... dimmer sets the vDevice. Event sets all shades based on that vDevice.

If you have LED dim level indicators on your dimmer, this works better for sure. I do.

It occurs to me we could do a combo of both styles as you suggest BUT maybe even cooler ...

Use your current method as the control mechanism (dimmer as remote)
+ for set of shades you control with a given dimmer, create an Event that monitor shade levels

... trigger is the button release (when you stop pressing)
... waiting period for the values to settle into the shade's controller ... set to the longest you'd likely hold the button.
... with an Easy Trigger formulas or a script, compare all the levels from each shade.
... set all shades to the largest or smallest numeric level (or whatever you want, round to the nearest 2, 5, 10, etc)


I have 17 shades, rooms have 2, 3, or 4 shade in them. They are never 100% in sync using the remote. Does not bother me much as they are close, but I may play with this idea anyway
Seeing 2, 3, 4 shades on the same wall, right next to each other is more pleasing they are the same exact level

[alphatech]

Yesterday, took me about half day or more to try to understand Bali documentation. They have difference scenarios so it is a little bit confusing. I extracted some of that documentation to be specific to HS, hopefully it will help. There are still things that I do not understand like adding an extra shade to the network. I had to remove and add all five of shades to make it to work. Hopefully it will help someone.
FYI, I use dimming as well in my events, much easier in my view.

Add Your Shades
1. From HomeSeer interface, select the option to Include a new Z-Wave device.
2. On one of your shades, press and hold the program button for 3 seconds. When the shade LED flashes green, release the button. The shade should appear as a found Z-Wave device in HomeSeer.
3. Repeat steps 1–2 for each shade

Add Your Premium Remote (This is only done once to add the remote control device on HomeSeer)
1. From HomeSeer, select the option to include a new Z-Wave device.
2. On the remote, press and hold the MENU/RIGHT button to enter the menu.
3. Select ZWAVE > LEARN.

Pair a Shade with a Premium Remote
On the remote, press and hold the MENU/ RIGHT button for 2 seconds to enter the menu.
Select ZWAVE > ASSOCIATE.
On the shade, press and hold the program button for 3 seconds. When the shade LED flashes green, release the button. The shade will jog.
Repeat steps 1–3 for each shade you want to control with a remote.

Assigning Shades to Channels
Press and hold the MENU/RIGHT button for 2 seconds to enter the menu
Select Channel
Select the channel you want to assign the shade to by scrolling left or right.
Select the shade you want to assign to the channel by scrolling up or down.
Press and hold the MENU/ RIGHT button for 2 seconds. The shade will jog and a checkmark will appear next to the shade number on the remote screen. 6. Repeat steps 3–5 for each shade.

---------------------------

To remove current Pairing
Reset your premium remote.
Press and hold the MENU/ RIGHT button for 2 seconds to enter the menu.
Select ZWAVE > RESET. With LIKE NEW? selected, press and hold the MENU/ RIGHT button until the screen no longer tells you to wait.
On each shade, press and hold the program button for 7 seconds. When the shade jogs, release the button.

To remove the current pairing between your shades and remotes, and start fresh, follow these steps:
For a Premium Remote 1. On the remote, press and hold the MENU/RIGHT button to enter the menu.
2. Select ZWAVE > RESET. 3. With LIKE NEW? selected, press and hold the MENU/RIGHT button until the screen no longer tells you to wait.

For a Shade
1. Move the shade to its upper limit. 2. On the shade, press and hold the program button for 7 seconds. When the shade jogs, release the button. All remotes are now unpaired with the shade. However, the shade’s upper, lower, and home positions are still set.

[jcd]

Hi -

Sort of a more general question but I'm tagging into this thread because my "target audience" of the question is folks using Bali Z-wave shades...

In short: Would you do it again (buy/install Z-wave shades)? Are the shades reliable and worth the cost and effort?

I ask because I've used Somfy RTS shades over many years and it's been a bitter experience. The Somfy URTSII interface is lousy, the shades often randomly lose all their programming, the shades (obviously) do not operate manually - which means when they are broken we have no use of our windows, and programming them is painful and unintuitive as heck.

Oh - and they are beastly expensive, more so when factoring in the hassles above.

So I hate Somfy, but I'm spoiled - being able to have shades go up/down based on events, alarm conditions, or a single button press is compelling. I'm in the process of migrating from an OmniPro II system to an Elk/HS4 system and need to replace every shade in the house so I'm faced with a decision that is quite $$$$ consequential and wondering if it's worth it or if I should just go back to manual shades.

Would appreciate any sharing of your experience and if you'd do it again.

Cheers,
Jcd

[Bradkw]

In short: Would you do it again (buy/install Z-wave shades)? Are the shades reliable and worth the cost and effort?

Yes! I love my Bali shades! I’ve had them over a year now and I have not had one issue with them. They work as well as any Z-Wave device I own and I have almost 100 devices including the 7 Bali blinds. Precision manual control is a little bit difficult with HS4. But somehow the blinds stayed paired with their original remote so I can precisely control them with their original remote when needed. I’m not sure exactly sure how that works but it does and I’m not going to mess with it. lol Then I use HS4 events and light sensors and put the blinds down automatically when the sun comes in the window. Works perfectly every day. I also use them with Z-Wave switches for full up or full down events.

Yes, they are expensive but I waited until they were 50% off. That helped cushion the blow.

[Kevb]

I would absolutely get more zwave shades. Very reliable. I got mine for a window above a door that would be difficult to have a manual shade. Since the remote button works with it, I plan to leave the shade and remote when we eventually move.

[mulu]

We have about 10 Bali z-wave shades. I am having some issue with them where sometimes the shades start moving but then stop before the position was reached that they are supposed to go to. It appears that this happens more often when I send commands to multiple shades at the same time (from the same event). I started putting in some delays so the next shade only moves when the previous shade finished. It seems to help. The other annoying thing is that they are pretty loud. Oh, and those square (2 button) and rectangular (3 button) remotes are very cheaply made (but cost like $50+ to replace).

Having said that, I would do it again. Unlike the RTS motors, the z-wave motors allow precise control/positioning. That is especially important for the Bali sheer shades where the angle of the 'slates' adjusts at the very bottom. Depending on the window (actually, depending on the lower limit) I have to set it to between 4-7% for the slates to be open. That would be impossible to do with RTS.

We do also have RTS for the two awnings and the shade for the front door. It seems like Somfy doesn't make any outdoor rated z-wave motors. For those shades I use the RTXCom device with the corresponding plugin. It works very well. There is no precise control so I just do events like 'start move', wait 5s, 'stop move'. It does the job for what I need.

[ksum]

We have z-wave shades which were sold by an independent installer. The manufacturer is actually Spring Window Fashions and the same manual is used for the Bali shades. I am almost certain Bali is just rebranding the Spring Window Fashions units. If I had more windows which needed shades, I would definitely get more of these. I just wouldn't use the same place as they had no idea what they were selling.

There is a third, "Premium Remote" which is very nice. It allows for 12 "Channels" and can be paired with up to 24 shades. Each of the 12 channels can control up to 8 of these 24 shades at any one time. My wife uses the remotes, but i just let HomeSeer control everything. They go partway down prior to sunset, then down leaving about an 18" opening so the dog can look out at sunset. At sunrise, or 7 AM, whichever is last, they open to a set point.

Pairing the shades and remotes was interesting but once you get the hang of it, not terrible.

[mulu]

We have z-wave shades which were sold by an independent installer. The manufacturer is actually Spring Window Fashions and the same manual is used for the Bali shades. I am almost certain Bali is just rebranding the Spring Window Fashions units.
<snip>

I suspect Bali is owned by Spring Window Fashions. When you try to contact customer service for Bali they actually list the Spring Window Fashions email address.

[jcd]

Thanks so much for the feedback!

I do know that Spring Window Fashion is the "actual" manufacturer and the rest is just branding and sales channels... I'm looking at Blinds.com right now and to replace all the shades in the house (thanks a lot Somfy, grrrrr) it's looking like about $6k. Ouch. But that's "only" a premium of about 30% over just doing standard manual shades - and in that context I'm asking myself, "Is the $2k amortized over the next 10+ years worth it to have/keep my full window automation?" And based on the reassurances from you peeps, I feel better saying yes.

A couple more questions about the infrastructure please:

• I have hardwired 12vdc power to each window location so wherever I order I'm going to try to get them to skip the battery packs (and related cost).
• I know the remotes (which sound flimsy) are convenience to have, but if I'm controlling via HS4/HSTouch do I need them at all (i.e., is one needed for programming? It doesn't look like it from the install notes but I wanted to be sure)?
• Similar to above, do I need their "gateway" at all for any reason or can I just control/program using the HS Z-Net like any other Z-wave device?
• I've seen posters talk about using Z-wave dimmers, or Bradkw you noted above about using Z-wave switches... Are you talking about adding these into the network as Device Type = dimmer (or switch)? These don't need actual Z-wave switches/dimmers to control them, right?? My use case is basically going to be fully up or fully down - though I do have one shade in my office that I used to put halfway down to block the late-afternoon sun from hitting my computer screens...

ksum, I think you answered a couple of my questions via your comments above, but just wanted to double-check.
(and to the OP, I'm sorry that I derailed/hijacked the thread a little bit 😳)

[Bradkw]

I have hardwired 12vdc power to each window location so wherever I order I'm going to try to get them to skip the battery packs (and related cost).

It should work. I'm not sure if there is any warranty concern if you don't use their transformers, but you wouldn't need batteries. They have decent sales reps so it would be a good question if it's not answered in their FAQ.

I know the remotes (which sound flimsy) are convenience to have, but if I'm controlling via HS4/HSTouch do I need them at all (i.e., is one needed for programming? It doesn't look like it from the install notes but I wanted to be sure)?

You don't need them unless you want to control the blinds without Homeseer. The 12 channel remote is good quality but the others are a bit cheap.

Similar to above, do I need their "gateway" at all for any reason or can I just control/program using the HS Z-Net like any other Z-wave device?

Don't buy their gateway. Homeseer is your gateway.

I've seen posters talk about using Z-wave dimmers, or Bradkw you noted above about using Z-wave switches... Are you talking about adding these into the network as Device Type = dimmer (or switch)? These don't need actual Z-wave switches/dimmers to control them, right?? My use case is basically going to be fully up or fully down - though I do have one shade in my office that I used to put halfway down to block the late-afternoon sun from hitting my computer screens...

I use the Central Scene feature of Zooz Zen34 remote switches and make a 1 gang decora switch into a 2 gang with the Zen34. Now I have a switch just for manual control of the blinds. Tap down once = full down, tap down twice = 25%, 3x=50%, 4x75%. (or whatever makes more sense to you.) I considered using a dimmer and setting the blind to the dim level, but I rarely use the switch for anything but full down or up, so I didn't bother. You can fully control the blinds with events, but without some kind of local control you can't walk into the room and move the blinds.

Yes, Spring Windows Fashions is Bali Blinds. That's where I purchased. When you buy Bali, they ship from Spring. They are running 50% off now... but they will do it again in a month or two. I think 55% or 60% is the best sale I've seen, but 50% is good too.

[mulu]

I have 12V from a central location to each window except for one. Hence, I only use batteries on that one window. Although I use pretty thick cables (I think 16 AWG) I had to boost the output to 15V. They told me I either needed the battery or distribution board but you can get around it. I bought a bunch of short micro USB cables and connected them to my wires at the Windows. So instead of plugging the shade into the battery pack I plugged them into that USB cable.

Although all shades are automated, we still leave the small remotes at each window. Once in a while we want to do something that is outside the automation. We could use Alexa for that but having a remote at each window is still nice to have.

You don't need the gateway. You will connect the shades to your HS z-wave stick. That's your gateway. The Bali manual isn't even specific about their gateway but they talk about a general gateway.

[ksum]

I would not call the premium remote flimsy. It is a nice remote. The others aren't bad, just small. We've had no problems with them but we have only had them 2 years. My wife uses the small ones when she wants to control the blinds. At first that was daily. Now weekly. I also use one of the remotes to turn my office on and off when it isn't done via automation. So they can be used for items other than the blinds. Each button has 3 values reported. (see image below) The Released is used by the blinds as holding the button will start moving the shade and releasing stops it from moving when associated with the blinds.

If you want to manually control them, the remotes are the easiest way. In HomeSeer the opening is a % value. So any way you remotely control a dimmable light/switch without an automatic would also work.