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  • ksum
    replied
    I would not call the premium remote flimsy. It is a nice remote. The others aren't bad, just small. We've had no problems with them but we have only had them 2 years. My wife uses the small ones when she wants to control the blinds. At first that was daily. Now weekly. I also use one of the remotes to turn my office on and off when it isn't done via automation. So they can be used for items other than the blinds. Each button has 3 values reported. (see image below) The Released is used by the blinds as holding the button will start moving the shade and releasing stops it from moving when associated with the blinds.

    If you want to manually control them, the remotes are the easiest way. In HomeSeer the opening is a % value. So any way you remotely control a dimmable light/switch without an automatic would also work.

    Click image for larger version

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  • mulu
    replied
    I have 12V from a central location to each window except for one. Hence, I only use batteries on that one window. Although I use pretty thick cables (I think 16 AWG) I had to boost the output to 15V. They told me I either needed the battery or distribution board but you can get around it. I bought a bunch of short micro USB cables and connected them to my wires at the Windows. So instead of plugging the shade into the battery pack I plugged them into that USB cable.

    Although all shades are automated, we still leave the small remotes at each window. Once in a while we want to do something that is outside the automation. We could use Alexa for that but having a remote at each window is still nice to have.

    You don't need the gateway. You will connect the shades to your HS z-wave stick. That's your gateway. The Bali manual isn't even specific about their gateway but they talk about a general gateway.

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  • Bradkw
    replied
    Originally posted by jcd View Post
    I have hardwired 12vdc power to each window location so wherever I order I'm going to try to get them to skip the battery packs (and related cost).
    It should work. I'm not sure if there is any warranty concern if you don't use their transformers, but you wouldn't need batteries. They have decent sales reps so it would be a good question if it's not answered in their FAQ.

    Originally posted by jcd View Post
    I know the remotes (which sound flimsy) are convenience to have, but if I'm controlling via HS4/HSTouch do I need them at all (i.e., is one needed for programming? It doesn't look like it from the install notes but I wanted to be sure)?
    You don't need them unless you want to control the blinds without Homeseer. The 12 channel remote is good quality but the others are a bit cheap.

    Originally posted by jcd View Post
    Similar to above, do I need their "gateway" at all for any reason or can I just control/program using the HS Z-Net like any other Z-wave device?
    Don't buy their gateway. Homeseer is your gateway.

    Originally posted by jcd View Post
    I've seen posters talk about using Z-wave dimmers, or Bradkw you noted above about using Z-wave switches... Are you talking about adding these into the network as Device Type = dimmer (or switch)? These don't need actual Z-wave switches/dimmers to control them, right?? My use case is basically going to be fully up or fully down - though I do have one shade in my office that I used to put halfway down to block the late-afternoon sun from hitting my computer screens...
    I use the Central Scene feature of Zooz Zen34 remote switches and make a 1 gang decora switch into a 2 gang with the Zen34. Now I have a switch just for manual control of the blinds. Tap down once = full down, tap down twice = 25%, 3x=50%, 4x75%. (or whatever makes more sense to you.) I considered using a dimmer and setting the blind to the dim level, but I rarely use the switch for anything but full down or up, so I didn't bother. You can fully control the blinds with events, but without some kind of local control you can't walk into the room and move the blinds.

    Yes, Spring Windows Fashions is Bali Blinds. That's where I purchased. When you buy Bali, they ship from Spring. They are running 50% off now... but they will do it again in a month or two. I think 55% or 60% is the best sale I've seen, but 50% is good too.

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  • jcd
    replied
    Thanks so much for the feedback!

    I do know that Spring Window Fashion is the "actual" manufacturer and the rest is just branding and sales channels... I'm looking at Blinds.com right now and to replace all the shades in the house (thanks a lot Somfy, grrrrr) it's looking like about $6k. Ouch. But that's "only" a premium of about 30% over just doing standard manual shades - and in that context I'm asking myself, "Is the $2k amortized over the next 10+ years worth it to have/keep my full window automation?" And based on the reassurances from you peeps, I feel better saying yes.

    A couple more questions about the infrastructure please:
    • I have hardwired 12vdc power to each window location so wherever I order I'm going to try to get them to skip the battery packs (and related cost).
    • I know the remotes (which sound flimsy) are convenience to have, but if I'm controlling via HS4/HSTouch do I need them at all (i.e., is one needed for programming? It doesn't look like it from the install notes but I wanted to be sure)?
    • Similar to above, do I need their "gateway" at all for any reason or can I just control/program using the HS Z-Net like any other Z-wave device?
    • I've seen posters talk about using Z-wave dimmers, or Bradkw you noted above about using Z-wave switches... Are you talking about adding these into the network as Device Type = dimmer (or switch)? These don't need actual Z-wave switches/dimmers to control them, right?? My use case is basically going to be fully up or fully down - though I do have one shade in my office that I used to put halfway down to block the late-afternoon sun from hitting my computer screens...
    ksum, I think you answered a couple of my questions via your comments above, but just wanted to double-check.
    (and to the OP, I'm sorry that I derailed/hijacked the thread a little bit 😳)

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  • mulu
    replied
    Originally posted by ksum View Post
    We have z-wave shades which were sold by an independent installer. The manufacturer is actually Spring Window Fashions and the same manual is used for the Bali shades. I am almost certain Bali is just rebranding the Spring Window Fashions units.
    <snip>
    I suspect Bali is owned by Spring Window Fashions. When you try to contact customer service for Bali they actually list the Spring Window Fashions email address.

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  • ksum
    replied
    We have z-wave shades which were sold by an independent installer. The manufacturer is actually Spring Window Fashions and the same manual is used for the Bali shades. I am almost certain Bali is just rebranding the Spring Window Fashions units. If I had more windows which needed shades, I would definitely get more of these. I just wouldn't use the same place as they had no idea what they were selling.

    There is a third, "Premium Remote" which is very nice. It allows for 12 "Channels" and can be paired with up to 24 shades. Each of the 12 channels can control up to 8 of these 24 shades at any one time. My wife uses the remotes, but i just let HomeSeer control everything. They go partway down prior to sunset, then down leaving about an 18" opening so the dog can look out at sunset. At sunrise, or 7 AM, whichever is last, they open to a set point.

    Pairing the shades and remotes was interesting but once you get the hang of it, not terrible.

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  • mulu
    replied
    We have about 10 Bali z-wave shades. I am having some issue with them where sometimes the shades start moving but then stop before the position was reached that they are supposed to go to. It appears that this happens more often when I send commands to multiple shades at the same time (from the same event). I started putting in some delays so the next shade only moves when the previous shade finished. It seems to help. The other annoying thing is that they are pretty loud. Oh, and those square (2 button) and rectangular (3 button) remotes are very cheaply made (but cost like $50+ to replace).

    Having said that, I would do it again. Unlike the RTS motors, the z-wave motors allow precise control/positioning. That is especially important for the Bali sheer shades where the angle of the 'slates' adjusts at the very bottom. Depending on the window (actually, depending on the lower limit) I have to set it to between 4-7% for the slates to be open. That would be impossible to do with RTS.

    We do also have RTS for the two awnings and the shade for the front door. It seems like Somfy doesn't make any outdoor rated z-wave motors. For those shades I use the RTXCom device with the corresponding plugin. It works very well. There is no precise control so I just do events like 'start move', wait 5s, 'stop move'. It does the job for what I need.

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  • Kevb
    replied
    I would absolutely get more zwave shades. Very reliable. I got mine for a window above a door that would be difficult to have a manual shade. Since the remote button works with it, I plan to leave the shade and remote when we eventually move.

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  • Bradkw
    replied
    Originally posted by jcd View Post
    In short: Would you do it again (buy/install Z-wave shades)? Are the shades reliable and worth the cost and effort?
    Yes! I love my Bali shades! I’ve had them over a year now and I have not had one issue with them. They work as well as any Z-Wave device I own and I have almost 100 devices including the 7 Bali blinds. Precision manual control is a little bit difficult with HS4. But somehow the blinds stayed paired with their original remote so I can precisely control them with their original remote when needed. I’m not sure exactly sure how that works but it does and I’m not going to mess with it. lol Then I use HS4 events and light sensors and put the blinds down automatically when the sun comes in the window. Works perfectly every day. I also use them with Z-Wave switches for full up or full down events.

    Yes, they are expensive but I waited until they were 50% off. That helped cushion the blow.

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  • jcd
    replied
    Hi -

    Sort of a more general question but I'm tagging into this thread because my "target audience" of the question is folks using Bali Z-wave shades...

    In short: Would you do it again (buy/install Z-wave shades)? Are the shades reliable and worth the cost and effort?

    I ask because I've used Somfy RTS shades over many years and it's been a bitter experience. The Somfy URTSII interface is lousy, the shades often randomly lose all their programming, the shades (obviously) do not operate manually - which means when they are broken we have no use of our windows, and programming them is painful and unintuitive as heck.

    Oh - and they are beastly expensive, more so when factoring in the hassles above.

    So I hate Somfy, but I'm spoiled - being able to have shades go up/down based on events, alarm conditions, or a single button press is compelling. I'm in the process of migrating from an OmniPro II system to an Elk/HS4 system and need to replace every shade in the house so I'm faced with a decision that is quite $$$$ consequential and wondering if it's worth it or if I should just go back to manual shades.

    Would appreciate any sharing of your experience and if you'd do it again.

    Cheers,
    Jcd

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  • alphatech
    replied
    Yesterday, took me about half day or more to try to understand Bali documentation. They have difference scenarios so it is a little bit confusing. I extracted some of that documentation to be specific to HS, hopefully it will help. There are still things that I do not understand like adding an extra shade to the network. I had to remove and add all five of shades to make it to work. Hopefully it will help someone.
    FYI, I use dimming as well in my events, much easier in my view.

    Add Your Shades
    1. From HomeSeer interface, select the option to Include a new Z-Wave device.
    2. On one of your shades, press and hold the program button for 3 seconds. When the shade LED flashes green, release the button. The shade should appear as a found Z-Wave device in HomeSeer.
    3. Repeat steps 1–2 for each shade

    Add Your Premium Remote (This is only done once to add the remote control device on HomeSeer)
    1. From HomeSeer, select the option to include a new Z-Wave device.
    2. On the remote, press and hold the MENU/RIGHT button to enter the menu.
    3. Select ZWAVE > LEARN.

    Pair a Shade with a Premium Remote
    On the remote, press and hold the MENU/ RIGHT button for 2 seconds to enter the menu.
    Select ZWAVE > ASSOCIATE.
    On the shade, press and hold the program button for 3 seconds. When the shade LED flashes green, release the button. The shade will jog.
    Repeat steps 1–3 for each shade you want to control with a remote.

    Assigning Shades to Channels
    Press and hold the MENU/RIGHT button for 2 seconds to enter the menu
    Select Channel
    Select the channel you want to assign the shade to by scrolling left or right.
    Select the shade you want to assign to the channel by scrolling up or down.
    Press and hold the MENU/ RIGHT button for 2 seconds. The shade will jog and a checkmark will appear next to the shade number on the remote screen. 6. Repeat steps 3–5 for each shade.

    ---------------------------

    To remove current Pairing
    Reset your premium remote.
    Press and hold the MENU/ RIGHT button for 2 seconds to enter the menu.
    Select ZWAVE > RESET. With LIKE NEW? selected, press and hold the MENU/ RIGHT button until the screen no longer tells you to wait.
    On each shade, press and hold the program button for 7 seconds. When the shade jogs, release the button.

    To remove the current pairing between your shades and remotes, and start fresh, follow these steps:
    For a Premium Remote 1. On the remote, press and hold the MENU/RIGHT button to enter the menu.
    2. Select ZWAVE > RESET. 3. With LIKE NEW? selected, press and hold the MENU/RIGHT button until the screen no longer tells you to wait.

    For a Shade
    1. Move the shade to its upper limit. 2. On the shade, press and hold the program button for 7 seconds. When the shade jogs, release the button. All remotes are now unpaired with the shade. However, the shade’s upper, lower, and home positions are still set.
    Click image for larger version

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  • Ltek
    replied
    I have an idea. The below is long but worth it - I think

    Yes, there are 2 different methods - each with different benefits/results...

    1. Events using the dimmer like a direct remote: a bit more "direct" / immediate but less accurate... shade level sync is based on length of button hold, and the speed of the HS & Zwave system to ensure the shades are the same level. Just like if using the Bali remote. But the shades rarely are in sync due to not setting a actual dim level, and zwave direct (what the remote uses) is all based on timing.

    2. Events setting a dim level, like it is ad-hoc 'scene' : All the shades controlled will be the exact same level when set using that dimmer and/or an associated virtual device (like I use)... dimmer sets the vDevice. Event sets all shades based on that vDevice.

    If you have LED dim level indicators on your dimmer, this works better for sure. I do.

    It occurs to me we could do a combo of both styles as you suggest BUT maybe even cooler ...

    Use your current method as the control mechanism (dimmer as remote)
    + for set of shades you control with a given dimmer, create an Event that monitor shade levels

    ... trigger is the button release (when you stop pressing)
    ... waiting period for the values to settle into the shade's controller ... set to the longest you'd likely hold the button.
    ... with an Easy Trigger formulas or a script, compare all the levels from each shade.
    ... set all shades to the largest or smallest numeric level (or whatever you want, round to the nearest 2, 5, 10, etc)


    I have 17 shades, rooms have 2, 3, or 4 shade in them. They are never 100% in sync using the remote. Does not bother me much as they are close, but I may play with this idea anyway
    Seeing 2, 3, 4 shades on the same wall, right next to each other is more pleasing they are the same exact level

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  • Bradkw
    replied
    Originally posted by Ltek View Post
    2. you will be setting the value of the HS dimmer (zwave node in HS), the event will simply pass thae set value to the shade's HS device.
    Interesting… but I still don’t understand something. Using my events I hold the switch until the shades are to the position I want and then let go of the switch and the shades stop. Using the dimmer method I can only see it working if you set the dimmer first and the shades move after the fact to the position set by the dimmer. My question is how do you know when the dimmer is set? Using a dimmer with LED indicators would give you a rough estimate. Granted my method isn’t precise either as my shades don’t always end up all at the same height. Yours should always be at the same level, but maybe not exactly where you thought they would be. Maybe have to adjust them a couple times to get them where you want them.

    When the Bali blinds ship, they are programmed to the remotes and start and stop instantly and always in sync. Your method keeps the blinds in sync but would react after the fact to the switch setting.

    i’d like to find a method that matches the factory method where are they all move at the same time while the switch is being held then all stop at the same time. Please let me know if I don’t understand how you are doing it.

    if I combine the two methods I could have one shade as the master shade and then all the rest follow it after it’s set. Still not as cool as your method or the factory method where they all move at the same time.

    Please let me know if you have any tricks or if I missed something in how it’s actually working for you.

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  • Ltek
    replied
    Originally posted by Bradkw View Post

    I still have a few questions…

    1 Do you use hardwired dimmers with no load attached?
    2 When you set the level for the blinds, How does that work… For my events you let go of the switch when the blinds reach the desired level. For yours I am envisioning that you set the level visually on the dimmer (assuming it has LED indicators to show the dim level) and the blinds then set to that position.

    I’m still trying to wrap my head around how do you have this configured.
    1. Yes, but you can use it with one that also has a load.. HS doesnt care, the event is simply looking at the Zwave commands
    2. you will be setting the value of the HS dimmer (zwave node in HS), the event will simply pass thae set value to the shade's HS device.

    using a similar method but for a different reason... I have HS virtual devices for each room representing ALL the shaded in that room, like: "Master Shades Group" ... if I set that virtual device, I have an event that sets the values of ALL the shades (which are in an Easy Trigger group - for simplicity) in that room to the value in the virtual device. This is exactly the same as we are talking about above, only difference is above you have a real device as the trigger, not a virtual device. In the screenshot, ignore the AND IF ... I use that virtual device for showing the values when all shades are in sync, but also when they are not... so I only want it to change the value when 99 or less (the only real dim values the shades understand)
    Attached Files

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  • Bradkw
    replied
    Originally posted by Ltek View Post

    Sorry, forgot "Linked Devices" doesnt work for this (even though it should). I have an event with the trigger as Any Change and use Easy Trigger to set the value of the Shade to whatever the dimmer is. So basically you can have 1 event per dimmer, unless you want more fancy stuff with Central Scenes.
    I still have a few questions…

    1 Do you use hardwired dimmers with no load attached?
    2 When you set the level for the blinds, How does that work… For my events you let go of the switch when the blinds reach the desired level. For yours I am envisioning that you set the level visually on the dimmer (assuming it has LED indicators to show the dim level) and the blinds then set to that position.

    I’m still trying to wrap my head around how do you have this configured.

    Leave a comment:

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