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    Motion Sensor II

    I am struggling a bit with the programming the MS II sensors and have been trawling through the related HS3 and HS4 threads to try and figure it out.

    In particular it is the MS II sensor modes I am confused about

    I have a good idea about what Occupancy II does from this thread, but what how does that differ from the other modes?

    https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/li...-mode-ii/page2

    Occupancy II - Sends On commands repeatedly until timeout after last motion
    Occupancy I - ?
    Night Only - I presume this means Sensor is only active when light level is below some value
    Vacation - ?
    Security - I presume some sort of opposite mode of Occupancy. Perhaps not sending On commands repeatedly?

    This all stems from trying to get just one sensor working in a reliable manner, which means a simple Homeseer Event triggering a siren if the motion sensor switches from "No Motion" to "Motion.

    I have attached a screenshot showing the sensor insteon settings, and the Comm Reliability is not looking very good. The sensor is 3 feet away from the KeypadLinc Dimmer named "Laundry Hall Light" that has 99% reliability, so not sure what gives here.

    I have factory reset the sensor and done the "Reprogram Device" and "Program Device for Homesee" to see if that would improve things

    I'd apprecate any clarification on the sensor modes, as well as any suggestions for the particlar sensor itself






    #2
    Attached are my notes on the MS II, a combination of available information. Hope this helps. The MS II is not easy to grasp.
    Attached Files

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      #3
      Thank you! Great help and much appreciated!

      It still raises some questions about use cases.

      Occupancy
      sends On at first motion; the next message will be Off after no motion timeout
      Occupancy IIsends On message on every motion,Off after no motion timeout
      Night onlyactivates motion detection only at night; sends On at first motion; the next message
      will be Off after no motion timeout(like Occcupancy)
      Vacancysends Off after no motion timeout, no other message sent until mode changed
      Securitysends On at first motion, no other message sent until mode change


      Occupancy is straightfoward, at it's most basic a way to switch on something when occupancy is detected. But what could be some use cases for the additional On messages being sent with Occupancy II versus Occupancy I? I am thinking of it as a way to catch some of the motion triggers before the eventual grace period of the motion timeout, but n/o idea what type of event could benefit from this

      Night Only is straightforward too, basically Occupancy but only when dark

      Vacancy: I had to look this up vis-a-vis occupancy, and I think I understand it. It's for turning off something when the no motion timeout is hit. But will it send an On when ""
      no other message sent until mode changed" ? I have the impression this is more relevant when working with Insteon linked devices, but if all the logic is done in Homeseer as Events then Occupancy vs Vacancy doesn't matter that much

      Security: How is this different from Occupancy? It will send an On when motion is detected. Do I understand it correctly that it will not send an Off message when hitting the no motion timeout? Does it ever send an Off message at all or does it just only ever send On/Motion messages when it detects motion with reference to "
      no other message sent until mode change"?

      A lot of questions, hopefully helpful to others trying to get a handle on this sensor too :-)



      Comment


        #4
        I did some testing/logging with my MS II today, and I'm not sure that the description above for Occupancy II mode is correct, at least with MNS for HS4 in my installation.

        When my MS II is set to Occupancy (I), it fires ON messages with *first* motion detection, and then waits through the No Motion Timeout and sends and OFF command. The No Motion Timeout extends when motion is detected during the countdown, but no additional ON commands are sent.

        When my MS II is set to Occupancy II, it fires On messages with *first* motion detection, but does NOT fire an Off message when the No Motion Timeout countdown completes.

        The only difference I am finding between these modes is that Occupancy (I) sends an OFF command after a timeout. Occupancy II does not send the OFF.

        This is consistent with setting described in the Insteon 2844-222 MS II manual for the "On Only Mode". The Insteon Manual does not use the term Occupancy or Occupancy II.
        On Only Mode – This mode causes the Motion Sensor to only send the “ON” command. Useful for when you want to control when the lights (or other devices) turn off. Note that the status will always show active and if alerts are enabled, only Motion Alerts will be sent.

        I'm using HS4 4.2.16.0 and MNS 4.0.4.9. I see the previously referenced post (mnsandler 2019) relating to HS3, outlining the behavior as claude describes in his notes. My installation with an MS II definitely does not function in this manner at all. Occupancy II does NOT send repeated ON commands at every motion, (it 'snoozes' ON commands through the motion timeout), and does NOT send an OFF command after no motion timeout. It's basically Occupancy (I) without an OFF.

        Not sure if something changed between now and 2019, or if the HS4 MNS plugin handles things differently than the HS3 version did...

        Comment


          #5
          Hey Steveo369, thank you for chiming in with your observations and clarification!

          I see in my logs what you are saying about the OFF being transmitted in Occupancy I mode, and I can update that I got further with my issue as well:

          I didn't want to lose my sensors like how I lost my first gen ones years ago from the included batteries becoming leaky, and I eventually figured out my sensor problems was caused by having replaced the battery that came with the sensor with a rechargeable one that had a higher voltage, which caused the sensors to misbehave an trigger in various erratic ways

          I have put back in the original batteries temporarily, while waiting for a new batch of rechargeables with the correct voltage to arrive

          I am now able to make more meaningful rules based on sensor detection, though I am having issues with the plugin sometimes seeing double ON or double OFF commands from the motion sensor (spaced a few seconds apart), so that has me mostly using Homeseer's a "Device Value Is" as opposed to "Insteon Triggers"

          I am not sure yet what causes this, but I am still exploring and playing around with things. The sheer open scope of Homeseer is both amazing and overwhelming

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by kimp View Post
            Hey Steveo369, thank you for chiming in with your observations and clarification!

            I see in my logs what you are saying about the OFF being transmitted in Occupancy I mode, and I can update that I got further with my issue as well:

            I didn't want to lose my sensors like how I lost my first gen ones years ago from the included batteries becoming leaky, and I eventually figured out my sensor problems was caused by having replaced the battery that came with the sensor with a rechargeable one that had a higher voltage, which caused the sensors to misbehave an trigger in various erratic ways

            I have put back in the original batteries temporarily, while waiting for a new batch of rechargeables with the correct voltage to arrive
            The MS II uses the CR123 Lithium battery. Since these are lithium and more expensive than alkaline 9V batteries used in the old style motion sensor, they are typically better construction and not as prone to leaks. They also last a long time. My MSII is in my garage which is our main entry to the house, so it picks up everything with multiple triggers per day, and often me working in the garage, but the batteries last 18 months or longer. I've not found a need to​ pursue CR123 rechargeable units. The MSII is also capable of being powered by a USB source, if that's an option for you.

            I am now able to make more meaningful rules based on sensor detection, though I am having issues with the plugin sometimes seeing double ON or double OFF commands from the motion sensor (spaced a few seconds apart), so that has me mostly using Homeseer's a "Device Value Is" as opposed to "Insteon Triggers"
            It's funny you mention this. I also mostly receive duplicate OFF commands from my MSII, each occurring 1 second after the other. I receive duplicate ON commands about half the time. I also cannot explain this, but can see the problems it might cause. For the most part, a second ON command or OFF command sent would usually just be extra traffic, but if it were to invokes an event, that could be problematic. You could still use the Insteon Trigger on an Event, but you would probably want to select the Advanced Options for that Event, and specify that the Event Cannot Re-Run for: (some value longer than the time between duplicate MSII commands).

            In my case, I have created an insteon link between the MS II and the controlled garage lights, and do not use HS to perform any events based on the Motion Sensor commands; the direct linking works for my specific needs.

            I am not sure yet what causes this, but I am still exploring and playing around with things. The sheer open scope of Homeseer is both amazing and overwhelming
            I also jumped in to HS with no prior experience after Insteon went down in April. Searching and posting to these forums has been very helpful, definitely keep doing the same and you'll learn a lot, think of new ways to use your system and gain unique ideas on logic for your smart home.

            Comment


              #7
              I've seen plenty of CR type batteries leak around here, and with batteries being expensive and not always available (I have to import them) it is best to err on the side of caution. We've simply lost too many devices and gadgets in our household from leaking batteries, them sometimes being discovered having leaked even with the battery still being functional and providing power 🙄

              About the duplicate messages, I noticed some of my sensors had a duplicate link in it for the occupancy sensor. I have removed the extra one and will be monitoring it, so far I haven't seen any duplicate messages come up.

              The highlighted line below was also showing up as link Groups I deleted Groups and reloaded the page, after which all the links have been enumerated back in sequential order:


              Click image for larger version

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