Insteon All On

[ChallengerRT]

This is my first post. i did a lot of searching and reading but cannot figure out one of my issues. i purchased HS4Pro and MNS Insteon, love the products so far, it's running on a dedicated Linux pc. I have about 50 insteon devices. Most of which are working with shared switches, lamp links, keypad links, etc... the thing i cannot figure out is my keypad switch for my basement, it's 8 buttons, 6 of which turn on and off sets of lights, everything works fine, physical push, app, homeseer... i want to use the G and H buttons for all on and all off function, no toggle and mutually exclusive. Pushing all on turns on all lights and keypad led's...
with the HS software and Alexa, it works just fine.. if i hit the physical buttons, it does not work. Hitting the all on button turns on 1 light, i looked at the links and they seem fine. i will attach the settings.. I'm missing something? but have no clue what it is? Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[joegr]

So, it seems like you have button G controlling all the lights and button H controlling all the lights too? You press G and it turns H off and all the lights controlled with H off? That seems like a conflict to me.

I would make two groups, an all on group and an all off group. Trigger the all on group with G and the all off group with H.

[ChallengerRT]

thanks for the reply.. i do have the 2 groups, 1 sets to on and 1 sets to off.

[mnsandler]

i dont think you want to set the non-toggle on mode if you are going to use the radio button to toggle between G & H. the keypad programming will handle the led on/off

The idea with a radio group, is that you always turning something on (and the other leds go off - but no Off cmd is ever sent).

A group is usually triggered from an On cmd. so when G goes on, it sends an On cmd that should trigger the All On. and button H led should turn off

then pressing H to turn On, will trigger the turn off group and turn off the btn G led.

[ChallengerRT]

Thanks for the pointer Mark,

that did not work. it causes the led on G and H to turn on and off by clicking on it. non toggle worked better.. lol. so now it's in toggle mode, hitting all on turns on the Bar lights but not the button B, all off turns it back off... homeseer web hitting the all on and off still works fine though. I'm guessing if i cant fix it, i will just ask Alexa to do it and it works just like i want... Weird.

Just an FYI - there is no selection for non-toggle off mode

[Steveo369]

I think you're almost there... I have a similar setup, but I mostly use KPL Buttons in Toggle Mode. However I do have two KPL buttons which are in Non-Toggle On Mode and send an ON Command to control my Garage Doors. The LED's behind these same Button's respond only to the Garage Door sensor to show if the door is open or not.

A couple of other items to check and try:

1. Does your All On Group also turn on each of the KPL button LED's that you want to turn on when you press Button G? It looks like they do based on the link list, but you might confirm. You need to treat the LED behind each Button as a unique additional Responder to your Group.
2. Does your All Off Group also turn off each of the KPL button LED that you want to turn off when you press Button H?
3. You will want Non-Toggle On Set for Buttons G and H. Reset the "Button Groups" designator for these two buttons.
4. You may need to locally set the KPL Button G to control the load Button A per the Insteon Manual for this device (see image below).
   1. After doing this step, this button may show a "Combine 1" in the Button Groups Column (after reading the device links and settings). It does for my KPL, but I am using a button in Toggle Mode which controls the Load and another Button on the same KPL, so I'm not 100% sure on this.

With the version of KPL (not having a Non-Toggle OFF command function), the behavior of the LED light behind a Non-Toggle On button is a little bit confusing.

The Button LED is either Always On (and will go blink once/twice when depressed and return to ON) or Always Off (and will go blink once/twice when depressed and return to OFF). The Command sent is still always an Non-Toggle ON command.

For your situation, you will likely want the LED for Button G to be Always On and for Button H to be Always Off. (I think). You will be controlling whether the LED is on or off with another button on the KPL (i.e. if you press Button G, then the Button H LED (and all the other KPL Buttons) will light up). If you press Button H, then the Button G LED (and all the other KPL Buttons) will turn off.

This is where it gets confusing - You need to locally follow the steps in the (poorly written) Insteon Manual to set the Non-Toggle Mode for Button H with the LED off. In the screenshot below, note that there are no steps 1-3, this is a bust; the list starts with Step 4, and before starting Step 5, make sure the Button LED is OFF. In Step 7, cycle through until the button LED is OFF. The manual refers to this as Always Off (which is not a supported mode), but it functions so that the KPL button LED is in an Always Off state.



I hope this information helps, or at least gives you something to try!

[ChallengerRT]

Thanks so much.. very good info, i will give a try this weekend.

[ChallengerRT]

Update, I played around and did a button reset. Like before, using all on and off via homeseer- all works perfect.

only issue is using local G and H buttons.

Pushing G and H buttons will now turn on and off all lights except the local load lights and no local LED buttons A-F will light.. G and H buttons light as they should, they toggle LED light correctly

So in the end, the only issue is now to find out why local load will not turn on, and Buttons A-F LED's will not lite using G and H. But lookiing at the programming, it should turn on.

Steveo, i will try local programming like you said to fix the local led's.

[Steveo369]

ChallengerRT - I now recall having similar issues with linking button behavior when the buttons are on the same KPL. I migrated to HS4 in April '22 during the shutdown.

Doing a bit of digging back up old posts, the linking of buttons on the same KPL is a limitation (not supported by the MNS PI). You'll have to manually/locally link each KPL button LED to Buttons G and H. You'll want to locally link them in the ON/OFF state you want them to be in (So ON when linking to Button G and OFF when to Button H).

Here's a few posts to read up on this:

• https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/hs...nc#post1537466
• https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/lighting-primary-technology-plug-ins/lighting-primary-technology-discussion/insteon-mnsandler/1423900-keypad-linking#post1423900

It's a one-time setup procedure for KPL's where you want to control button LEDs from other buttons. Would be nice if the MNS PI supported this, not sure why it doesn't work for the same KPL button configuration.

Also, it sounds like you've figured most of this out already, but this is another good post about KPL behavior and logic...
https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/li...insteon-plugin

Hopefully this approach works for you, sorry I'd forgotten that I had manually linked my KPL's. I have non-functional links in my KPL link database, similar to those in your screenshots, probably because I set all of the KPL button LEDs as responders in my Group. You need this if you plan to control the Group from HS4 and want the button LEDs to behave correctly.

[ChallengerRT]

Steveo, thanks so much for the help. you pointed me in the right direction. Interesting, i can program the button lights, but the load seems to program locally but never works.. So i reset the switch... from there i programmed (locally) the buttons and load... YES.. it worked.. so i did a rewrite from MNS and it broke the local load and LED's again. So, i had an idea. i just bought the insteon HUB, so still in trial, i unblocked the firewall settings and set the switch with up with insteon HUB. All is well..

the trick for me was to program the switch with MSN, then create a scene with insteon hub. so far so good.. i just reenabled the insteon hub firewall settings, hopefully it stays working? Again.. THANK YOU!!!!!!!

[Steveo369]

Glad to hear you got it working.

You should be able to do all of this with MNS or local programming, and no need to get involved with Insteon cloud/HUB at all. I know that I got mine setup during the time there was no Insteon available.

Note that the procedure to program the Load button to respond to another same-KPL button is slightly different than the procedure to set any other same-KPL button LED as a responder to the scene. Not sure if you caught that difference or not.

For locally programming the load button, see my Post 6 above. (Or Insteon KPL manual pg 12)

For locally programming any other same-KPL button LED, you add these to the scene as responders. Insteon KPL Manual pg 10 for adding one at a time or Multiple Scene Responders to the scene. Buttons G or H are your scene controller, and the other Button LEDs are the responders you want to add.

As you've found, even if you read links from the KPL, but then you factory reset the device and Program the Device from MNS, these local same-KPL button links will not work. This is currently a plug-in limitation that I'm not sure mnsandler will (be able to) fix. Be sure to keep a copy of the Insteon KPL owners manual in your files and whatever notes/forum post printouts you need to support future lighting control changes you might want to implement!

[ChallengerRT]

You are good.. Thanks for all the help. Have a good weekend.