Z-Wave forwarding

[mc2software]

Researching other sites I found out that most locks, for security reasons and heavy encryption, do not do any beaming. That it at least the case with my Kwikset locks.

[Rupp]

Researching other sites I found out that most locks, for security reasons and heavy encryption, do not do any beaming. That it at least the case with my Kwikset locks.

How far is your guest house from your Zee's install location?
How far is your garage from your Zee's install location?
Do you have a wired network in each of these locations? If so you'd be much better off using Z-Net's to communicate with these remote locks.

[randy]

Researching other sites I found out that most locks, for security reasons and heavy encryption, do not do any beaming. That it at least the case with my Kwikset locks.

Not sure where you researched but most (if not all) locks do and must support beaming. Beaming is the process required to wake up a battery powered Z-Wave device such as a lock so that it can receive on command. Beaming has nothing to do with encryption or security. A lock does not “do” beaming but can respond to beaming. As far as I know all Z-Wave locks have supported beaming for years. I cannot find a Kwikset lock that doesn’t support beaming, per the Z-Wave Alliance. I don’t know the model of Kwikset lock you are using but a typical lock will support beaming.


This is still going to require putting some powered Z-Wave devices to act as repeaters. It will require effort to get the routing to work.

[randy]

I suspect that the locks do not do forwarding, since that would impact battery life. I'm going to add some line voltage powered z-wave plugs that do forwarding (already have all the light switches I need and they're all wifi only).

Locks and other battery powered devices do not contribute to the mesh.

[randy]

I noticed earlier in the thread you wrote they were 916 deadbolts. Here is the data.

[ewkearns]

I have 5 Kwikset locks and they all support beaming, but that is a red herring. Beaming works by your [whatever: switch, dimmer, etc.] beaming to your lock, when the lock wakes up. I doubt you want to hang around for that sort of service, even if it would work. I think you have two ways to fix this:

1) a z-wave range extender, which I found to be not all that helpful (because I had the same problem you have) or,

2) as many other hubs as are needed to reliably reach all of your locks. For me, that was two, but it sounds like you may need more, even as many locks as you have, depending on your specific layout and application.

Remember getting your hub(s) as high up in the air as possible is good. Things like metal walls, roofs, and studs are bad and will turn rooms and structures into very efficient Faraday Cages... if that is the case, only multiple hubs will save you...

PS
If you can move the existing hub around and get each lock working individually, you have found the problem!

[TC1]

I have 5 Kwikset locks and they all support beaming, but that is a red herring. Beaming works by your [whatever: switch, dimmer, etc.] beaming to your lock, when the lock wakes up. I doubt you want to hang around for that sort of service, even if it would work. I think you have two ways to fix this:

This is a misrepresentation. Beaming works the same, whether it comes from the controller or an intermediate device. The lock listens on a cyclic basis, the purpose of the Beam preamble is to get its attention when it does listen, that's why it's called a FLiRS node (Frequently Listening Routing Slave). The cycle is short enough that you don't notice it, hence why you can command a lock to open remotely and it happens within a second.

The exact specification is here:
Z-Wave Training - v1.0.0 - Z-Wave Silicon Labs (silabs.com)

[ewkearns]

Thanks for the clarification, but I think we are in agreement that the problem is the strength of the z-wave signal received.

[TC1]

But it's not... it all has to do with the capabilities of the nodes along the routing chain. People get hung up "you have to have your controller inches from the lock!" old wives' tale... when in reality what one has to do is eliminate any devices along the processing chain that don't support beaming.

[ewkearns]

But it's not... it all has to do with the capabilities of the nodes along the routing chain. People get hung up "you have to have your controller inches from the lock!" old wives' tale... when in reality what one has to do is eliminate any devices along the processing chain that don't support beaming.

First of all, I'm not disagreeing with you on any point, you are entirely correct, but in this unique case, the OP says about his particular installation:

1) have 10 Kwikset Z-Wave keypad locks spread over 3 buildings (house,garage,guest house). I have them all registered in my HS4-Pi. However, the locks do not operate unless the HS4-Pi is in the same building as the lock.

2) "The only Z-wave devices in the other buildings are the locks. All lights and light switches are wifi. I know that it's not related t[o] the Wifi APs: I was just letting everyone know how I have the buildings configured for wifi."

So, for the OP there is no z-wave "routing chain" and there is no mesh because beaming does not a "repeater, an SIS, or a setup controller"¹ make and there are no other z-wave devices involved. It is clear the OP is confused about Z-Wave terminology and methodology and I would greatly encourage him to read the link you kindly posted (for my part, it will be printed, read, and annotated). My statement was essentially, "in lieu of a z-wave mesh or direct connection for each and every lock with the existing z-wave controller, the only remaining recourse² is a direct connection with the (additional) z-wave hub(s)"... hence a Z-Net in no-hop reach of each individual lock.

I regard this as a very unusual and special situation that probably could have been avoided with WiFi locks.

**********************************************
1. https://docs.silabs.com/z-wave/1.0.0...sleeping-nodes

2. OK, the OP could create a mesh by removing enough wifi switches (etc.) and replacing them with Z-Wave switches, but I doubt that would be a welcome suggestion.

[TC1]

Not in disagreement, a Z-Net in every building could solve it, but at $134 a piece, not an economical solution. One could simply put a Z-wave+ light dimmer (which should also support beaming) in each building at around $30 a piece and be done with it. That's how I extended my single Z-wave network to my detached garage on the rear of my property.

[ewkearns]

Not in disagreement, a Z-Net in every building could solve it, but at $134 a piece, not an economical solution. One could simply put a Z-wave+ light dimmer (which should also support beaming) in each building at around $30 a piece and be done with it. That's how I extended my single Z-wave network to my detached garage on the rear of my property.

I tried that (5 switches). Everything worked well except for locks that had to negotiate security. They tended to be very iffy. A Z-Net fixed it. Unfortunately, this is a “how long is a piece of string?” issue for each user.


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