New INSTEON/X10 8-Zone Sprinkler Controller

[Micromic]

I noticed this new product today on Smarthome.com:
http://www.smarthome.com/31270.html
According to the description, it is compatible with Homeseer - "an 8-zone irrigation unit capable of controlling up to eight sprinkler valves either individually or in program sequences in response to single INSTEON or X10 command from your PC or a standalone home automation controller. This irrigation controller will work with any standard 24V AC sprinkler system"

Has anyone heard of this new device? Can/will it be supported by mcsSprinklers?

I think this is the link to the manufacturer:
http://simplehomenet.com

[TeleFragger]

hmmmm looks nice.... hopefully next year I will be doing my sprinkler system... and before then purchase hs and have it running!!!!!

[Michael McSharry]

I am aware of the new family of Insteon products by this company. mcsSprinklers will have the Insteon support provided by Homeseer to drive their sprinkler interface. I do not believe there will be native support for it as there is with the Rain8 family. This is a courtesy/strategy for the relationship I have with WGL.

[MasterMog]

Hi Michael,

When you say "mcsSprinklers will have the Insteon support provided by Homeseer to drive their sprinkler interface" does that mean you will support the addresses created for the insteon devices the same way X10 devices are supported for the RAIN8 units or that it will only be supported using the new sprinkler device X10 mode?


Thanks
Mack

[Michael McSharry]

The interface model for mcsSprinklers and Homeseer is to allow the user to specify the device codes that are defined in Homeseer. mcsSprinklers will then command these codes ON and OFF. If Homeseer's Insteon plugin is not able to support ON and OFF of Insteon devices then there is a compatibility problem. I'm not familiar with the Homeseer Insteon plugin to know.

The same is true of the Rain8UPB if Homeseer is going to be used to manage the UPB. mcsSprinklers will command ON and OFF and expect the Homeseer UPB plugin to send the GOTO 0, GOTO 100 commands to the Rain8UPB. With the Rain8UPB mcsSprinklers will be able to manage the UPB interface and send the GOTO commands directly. With Insteon I do not expect to do this.

[Oman]

The problem with Insteon is that the standard does *not* have provisions for devices with multiple control channels like UPB does. Therefore there is no way for the Insteon plug-in to know how many or what kind of devices it should create for a particular hardware device. Since the device type will not be recognized it will just get generic single channel support (one ON/OFF/Dim control).

I can't get any information from the device MFGR about how they implemented their controls. It appears from the SmartHome information provided that it responds to a single Insteon on/off command, which means to me that it would simply enable/disable or start/stop the existing schedule via Insteon. In this case mcsSprinklers would not be able to do anything useful with it since it expects to be able to control zones at will (and this is of course what it should be doing).

Jon

The interface model for mcsSprinklers and Homeseer is to allow the user to specify the device codes that are defined in Homeseer. mcsSprinklers will then command these codes ON and OFF. If Homeseer's Insteon plugin is not able to support ON and OFF of Insteon devices then there is a compatibility problem. I'm not familiar with the Homeseer Insteon plugin to know.

The same is true of the Rain8UPB if Homeseer is going to be used to manage the UPB. mcsSprinklers will command ON and OFF and expect the Homeseer UPB plugin to send the GOTO 0, GOTO 100 commands to the Rain8UPB. With the Rain8UPB mcsSprinklers will be able to manage the UPB interface and send the GOTO commands directly. With Insteon I do not expect to do this.

[MasterMog]

Hi Jon,

I got the impression from the manufacturer's website that the device support more then just the insteon on/off.

The following link is to their Insteon and X-10 command set:
http://simplehomenet.com/Downloads/E...mand%20Set.pdf


I would think that Homeseer would have to supply an interface or someone would need to develop a plug-in to support the device based on what I see in the document mentioned above.

Mack

[bunkers]

I might ask, why not just save $20-40 and get a rain8net or rain8* instead? (proven technology) From what I have heard, these insteon devices are not particularly reliable.

[MasterMog]

Well using the RAIN8 which is X10 is less reliable then INSTEON and the Rain8Net requires hardwiring to a com port or at least to an ethernet to RS232 converter. I agree that the Rain8Net is probably the best option but I was trying to avoid running additional wiring.

I currently do use the RAIN8II in X10 mode but even with boosterlincs in the right places the signal is getting weaker as I add more devices to my home. If the INSTEON Sprinkler Controller ends up not being an option I might have to break down and get the Rain8net.

[Michael McSharry]

If you standardize on Insteon for your powerline control protocol then it makes sense to use it for the sprinklers as well. If your direction is toward UPB then the Rain8UPB is the natural choice.

Another very viable way to do this is with Rain8Net and WiFi or use the wired version of IP/Serial with one of ethernet powerline adapters. I use one of these I got from Fry's for about $25 per node for an IP camera that I have installed in a remote location.

[MasterMog]

Hi Michael,

You mentioned you were using a ethernet powerline adapter you got from Fry's and I was curious to whether you were using it with X10 and/or Insteon? I usally shy away from devices that use the powerline for fear that they might cause a conflict with my HA stuff.

Mack

[Michael McSharry]

I use X10 and UPB. The camera is not viewed that often, and the X10 and UPB powerline utilization is a very small percentage of available bandwidth. I've never done a stress test to know if there is a problem, but with casual use the only problems I have hade are X10 ones that existed before either UPB or ethernet were put on the powerline. I do run ethernet on the same phase as UPB. X10 is on both phases. My powerline transformer is 600 ft from the house.

[Oman]

That's what I was afraid of actually. A new command set just for this device, and one that overlaps a few other custom devices as well. This is *not* good.

Jon

Hi Jon,

I got the impression from the manufacturer's website that the device support more then just the insteon on/off.

The following link is to their Insteon and X-10 command set:
http://simplehomenet.com/Downloads/E...mand%20Set.pdf


I would think that Homeseer would have to supply an interface or someone would need to develop a plug-in to support the device based on what I see in the document mentioned above.

Mack

[wysocki]

I've been running X10 devices for quite a few years and since my Toro sprinkler timer died, it's time to integrate into my HA system. I've lived with the headache of X10 never being 100% reliable. Sometimes devices wouldn't obey a command, sometimes they'd just trigger all by themselves. Not what I want for a sprinkler controller.

Also, since the CM11A download is not supported anymore, I liked Insteon for having the PLC that could control some of my devices without my whole HTPC equipment being on 24/7. I saw the EZrain with its Insteon capability and decided to switch to Insteon for the entire house. I bought a bunch of Insteon devices and am in process of conversion. However, I'm rather shocked at finding out that, for whatever reason, my HS installation with Insteon plugin will not be able to control my Insteon sprinkler! I thought Insteon only certified devices to use that name if they were compatible. I see that I could use X10 on the EZRain but then I'm back to unreliable X10 signals again. Did I waste my money or is anyone going to be able to provide a plugin for HS to use the EZrain?

[Oman]

Insteon certified means that it communicates using the Insteon low level protocol. They did not define a high-level generic device layer. It is similar to TCP/IP. FTP and HTTP both use TCP/IP but what the actual data means is different. The device mfgr goes to SmartHome and says "for this device we would like to make these commands codes do these actions" and SmartHome says - sure.

The PLC can be used to control the sprinkler device but a new device layer needs to be written to create HomeSeer devices with the proper actions available and then to convert them to Insteon commands.

The one advantage to the SDM is that multiple plug-ins can connect to the same PLC. This way for instance mcsSprinklers can add an Insteon sprinkler control layer. The current HomeSeer Insteon plug-in is designed for lighting control.

Jon

I've been running X10 devices for quite a few years and since my Toro sprinkler timer died, it's time to integrate into my HA system. I've lived with the headache of X10 never being 100% reliable. Sometimes devices wouldn't obey a command, sometimes they'd just trigger all by themselves. Not what I want for a sprinkler controller.

Also, since the CM11A download is not supported anymore, I liked Insteon for having the PLC that could control some of my devices without my whole HTPC equipment being on 24/7. I saw the EZrain with its Insteon capability and decided to switch to Insteon for the entire house. I bought a bunch of Insteon devices and am in process of conversion. However, I'm rather shocked at finding out that, for whatever reason, my HS installation with Insteon plugin will not be able to control my Insteon sprinkler! I thought Insteon only certified devices to use that name if they were compatible. I see that I could use X10 on the EZRain but then I'm back to unreliable X10 signals again. Did I waste my money or is anyone going to be able to provide a plugin for HS to use the EZrain?