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Could you please test this and report if you have a BT key ?

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    #46
    As in, if I buy a dongle that will plug into my USB, and I make certain that it is a Widcom, I should be able to use the signal strengths to determine location?
    Not really.... RSSI from one dongle only will never be enough to determine location (except if you live in a corridor maybe ). That's why I planned to support slave plugins, so that the plugin can do some sort of triangularisation....

    However, the point to note is that I have seen really different behaviors of the received RSSI data from different bluetooth dongles. One of my friend dongle is a no-name very long range BT dongle that he got for peanuts, and the RSSI data the plugin receives seems to be very accurate. I could really determine an approximate distance of the BT phone to the BT dongle. (I would love to get 3 of these dongles for testing but unfortunately there is no visible branding on the unit, and the shop doesn't sell them anymore )

    In comparison, the RSSI data received from my own BT dongle or my Dell Laptop integrated bluetooth is very inaccurate, and with those I can only determine if the phone is stuck to the dongle (positive rssi received), within 1 meter (0 rssi), or within 5 meters (negative rssi, but never the same - very fluctuating), or away more than 5 or 6 meters (no connection possible anymore to the BT phone).

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by stipus; February 20, 2006, 12:14 PM.
    --
    stipus

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      #47
      Ok, basically:

      Buy an attenuated Dongle (i.e. 1M version), and then put one at the front door, one at the back door type of thing?

      This way (being the doors are more then 3 ft. away) I just need to know if I linked up to a dongle. The plugin then will allow me to trigger "virtual housecodes" which I can correlate in the code, "Dan came home"...or at least his cellphone did...

      =-)

      So, in your experience, do you suggest the Widicom, or the MS? Or just try to finda cheap dongle and live with whatever it is?

      --Dan
      Tasker, to a person who does Homeautomation...is like walking up to a Crack Treatment facility with a truck full of 3lb bags of crack. Then for each person that walks in and out smack them in the face with an open bag.

      Comment


        #48
        I prefer the Widcomm stack because it supports RSSI.

        If you just want to know if your phone is home, there is no need for RSSI and you can use any stack (MS or Widcomm).

        However, you should buy a long range BT dongle because standard dongles are limited to a few meters. Of course it also depends on the BT device.

        stipus
        --
        stipus

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          #49
          What is RSSI?

          My basic premise, that I wan to use this for, is like RFID. You walk near the door, it unlocks (from the outside only, which I SHOULD be able to do by sheilding the dongles to face only one direction.

          I do not care if the phone is home. Only that the person attached is. I use the phone example, only because it is what I generally carry about.

          --Dan
          Tasker, to a person who does Homeautomation...is like walking up to a Crack Treatment facility with a truck full of 3lb bags of crack. Then for each person that walks in and out smack them in the face with an open bag.

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            #50
            RSSI is the Bluetooth Received Signal Strength Indicator. Without RSSI (rssi is not supported with the Microsoft Bluetooth Stack), you cannot hope for any positionning information. Only Present or Away.

            I don't think you can achieve something like walking to the door, and it unlocks only if you walk from the outside.

            With RFID this will be also very difficult to achieve, even if you shield the dongle. You can't be sure how the dongle will be positionned in your pocket or bag... etc.
            --
            stipus

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              #51
              Hmm...

              Well then, I suppose most people are going to be using this plug-in for turning on lights and such?

              I really think that this can be made to work with the doors.

              However, you are right. If I walk past the door, how does the system know that I do not want the door unlocked, IF it can "see" through the walls.

              It's field of view will be 360deg.

              So, how do you blind something like that, so that only when a person is on the outside of a wall, the system will "register" with them, and allow them access?

              RFID, I think would do the same thing now that I think about it.

              So, good point. Do you make it so that when a sensor is tripped on the inside, with this BT recognition, it does NOT unlock the door?

              So the other side requires someone to step on a sensor MAT, with the BT registration?

              I think that this method would work. You walk near the door, it begins to look for the trigger from the MAT. If it gets both, then it unlocks the door.

              If it gets a MAT trigger, BT trigger, AND a motion trigger/MAT trigger from the inside then it does NOT automatically unlock the door (assuming that a person w/ BT is on the inside, and a person without is at teh door knocking. Incorporate the Doorbell with that. Then you know for certain not to unlock the door, since WHY would someone with the BT trigger be ringing the doorbell?

              OR if the system detects BT, however the device is not registered...then make the assumption to NOT unlock the door?

              Man, the possiblities are endless!!

              How else can we feed information into the Homeseer to allow BT to work as a door controller?

              Any other ideas?

              --Dan
              Tasker, to a person who does Homeautomation...is like walking up to a Crack Treatment facility with a truck full of 3lb bags of crack. Then for each person that walks in and out smack them in the face with an open bag.

              Comment


                #52
                Or...do you put two computer dongles for each door?

                One that is about 1.X meters from the door (where X is some reasonable number greater then 0, less then .3 such that a good signal cannot be seen from outside - through the door, yet can be seen from inside since the shielding from the metal door will not be there)? I suppose a grounded door may act as a pretty decent shield...

                So, if you register with BOTH dngles, do not unlock the door, as you are inside and can just twist the knob? Or you are just walking near the door, and if you want to go out, you will twist the knob.

                If you register with only one, then you MUST be outside.

                Hmm... the juices are flowing....

                --Dan
                Tasker, to a person who does Homeautomation...is like walking up to a Crack Treatment facility with a truck full of 3lb bags of crack. Then for each person that walks in and out smack them in the face with an open bag.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Honnestly, I hope to be able to do some sort of triangularisation, but I'm not certain at all this is going to work, and I really doubt you can achieve any advanced positionning.

                  This will be a proximity plugin, supporting only one dongle in the first version. In a second time I will release a slave homeseer independant software that will be able to communicate with the plugin, maybe through XAP. And as soon as the BT lib supports several dongles (announced in the next version of the lib), I will support several dongles per computer.
                  --
                  stipus

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                    #54
                    Message intended for all who are watching this thread: The first release of the Bluetooth Connector is out. Read the relevant post in the plugin development forum.
                    --
                    stipus

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                      #55
                      I think you need to keep in mind BT is NOT a really accurate science.. so many factors can affect its range and signal strength.. getting it to know what side of a dorr your on is just trying to be too accurate.

                      As stipus has said, its a PROXIMITY plugin, ie... is the phone near or far, in range out of range.. to start unlocking doors based on such a thing is asking for problems.

                      Remeber, Bluetooth is hackable like any other radio signal.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        True, as is RFID...

                        Hackable...

                        Hmm...I guess the quest goes on for the best way to trigger a door to unlock.

                        --Dan
                        Tasker, to a person who does Homeautomation...is like walking up to a Crack Treatment facility with a truck full of 3lb bags of crack. Then for each person that walks in and out smack them in the face with an open bag.

                        Comment

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