Why Won't My RCS X10 Thermostats Initialize?

[Jim Doolittle]

I have been battling these thermostats for over 18 months trying to get a handle on why some people have very little trouble and others have major problems. Early on, issues were identified with the hardware itself which in itself took a lot of time and energy trying to resolve (and still may not be resolved for some).

The project progressed slowly as I attempted to emulate the look-and-feel of the stats with both a Windows and a web interface. I managed to get TX15-B and TXB16 stats that I used for testing (also wired the stats for my own use).

Through it all, I managed to get my stats to initialize nearly every time. However, this was not the case for others so a lot of time was spent trying to figure out why. The problems with mode jumping were especially troublesome and were never resolved and caused some users to revert to the thermostat scripts.

Now, along comes HS2 and I make changes to support it. Nothing that involved the actual sending and receiving of X10 commands. Just stuff related to working with devices and events. Beta testing of HS2 showed no immediate issues and so the plug-in was declared HS2-compatible. Then along comes the first HS2 release and I, yes I, am unable to initialize either of my stats.

I tried to go back to HS 1.7 but that caused problems on my machine and as of HS2 Build 1961, I no longer had HS 1.7 on my PC. A few more tweaks to the stat plug-in and still no luck. Same reports from others. Then I got a bright idea. I decided to try sending the necessary commands outside of HS entirely. Lo and behold! Same inconsistent results as with the plug-in. The darn stats were not responding as they should.

I tried unplugging things for a while and even tried different outlets. Still no luck. Yes, there were some responses but way too many failures.

I am now trying to figure out how I can get my stats to gain their original responsiveness back. I am thinking that whatever is wrong with mine, may be similar to others (not all users though because some went back to scripts that are working).

I am seriously thinking that the plug-in should be made to act nearly exactly as the thermostat scripts when it comes to X10 commands. That means no special modes (well, there is a couple scripts that use AutoSend which is real nice for tracking manual changes made at the Wall Display Unit) and no confirmation that commands sent actually took (other than polling at a later time to confirm). This would be a shame since, in my case and for some others, there were times when everything was working great.

BTW, I ended up resurrecting a RCS X10 Thermstat Simulation program I wrote early on and converted it to a testing program that uses HomeSeer's CM11A Active control. I can provide it to anyone who want to try it. HS will need to be shut down (or CM11A interface disable) during the testing.

Oh, if you thought that this thread was intended to provide answers, sorry if I misled you .

[stretch]

[Jim Doolittle]

Sounds like my design for the plug-in wasn't too far off of how HomeVision designed support for the RCS X10 thermostats but I do not require disabling of polling. However, this indeed would have the potential for a temperature/manual setpoint change to be confused with a setpoint/temperature poll but this should be a reare occurrence. In any event, I wouldn't use polling anyway if Echo Command Mode and AutoSend are working.

The main issue with the plug-in is the poor response rate from the stats. HS2 related? Doubtful given my test using older CM11A code and not having HS running.

[Jim Doolittle]

Command Processing Paths

Well there is something fishy going on with my system. It has to be something in the command processing paths. The plug-ins command processing paths include:

Property Request from Stat

1. Plug-in issues hs.ExecX10 preset dim command corresponding to a request for the property value
2. HS uses its X10 plug-in interface to send preset dim command to user's X10 interface
3. X10 interface sends command over powerline
4. Stat's two-way powerline interface receives command and gives it to the stat
5. Stat decodes preset dim and responds to request for value in the form of a preset dim
6. Stat's two-way powerline interface transmits preset dim over powerline
   
7. X10 interface receives command and transmits it to HS X10 plug-in
8. X10 plug-in sends command to HS
   
9. HS sends command to plug-in
   
10. Plug-In decodes preset dim and updates property value
    

Setting Stat Property (Without Confirmation)

1. Plug-in issues hs.ExecX10 preset dim command corresponding to the setting of a property value
2. HS uses its X10 plug-in interface to send preset dim command to user's X10 interface
3. X10 interface sends command over powerline
4. Stat's two-way powerline interface receives command and gives it to the stat
5. Stat decodes preset dim and sets property

Setting Stat Property (With Confirmation)

1. Plug-in issues hs.ExecX10 preset dim command corresponding to the setting of a property value
2. HS uses its X10 plug-in interface to send preset dim command to user's X10 interface
3. X10 interface sends command over powerline
4. Stat's two-way powerline interface receives command and gives it to the stat
5. Stat decodes preset dim and sets property
6. Stat responds via ACK or ECHO to confirm the setting of the property. Response is in the form of a preset dim
7. Stat's two-way powerline interface transmits preset dim over powerline
   
8. X10 interface receives command and transmits it to HS X10 plug-in
9. X10 plug-in sends command to HS
   
10. HS sends command to plug-in
    
11. Plug-In decodes the preset dim and acknowledges that command was confirmed
    

If step 6 fails to occur during initialization (which seems to be the case for me), then initialization will fail. Plug-In has to assume confirmation when user has ACK and ECHO disabled.

[druide]

[quote=Jim Doolittle;667713]I have been battling these thermostats for over 18 months trying to get a handle on why some people have very little trouble and others have major problems. Early on, issues were identified with the hardware itself which in itself took a lot of time and energy trying to resolve (and still may not be resolved for some).

-----snip-------snip-------

My thermostat TX15-B was working perfectly until I re-installed my software in a new server.... Then ... no response anymore.

So I went ahead and made sure that the Tstat was properly configured and still I was getting nothing.

Then I activated the safe mode and deactivated the safe mode and WOW!

***Log Extrat ***
'2/23/2008 3:19:25 PM - RCSX10 Info E - RCS X10 TSTAT initialization took 12.2 seconds'
*******************
Alhrough, in the tstat's property box, the safe mode was disabled to begin with, by activating it and deactivating it afterwards promptly resolved the problem.

Then I proceeded to repeat this little experiment by wiping out HomeSeer from the server and start a new istall and got the exact same results asn applied the same solution to resolve the issue.

For some odd reason it seems that the Safe Mode has something to do with proper initialization of the TX15-B Thermostat.

Druide.


Notes:
I am new to this and working on evaluating and upgrading to HomeSeer form an other software maker.

This will be a somewhat long process since I have 188 automaded circuits and an intelligent HVAC system

[Jim Doolittle]

You may want to try my DooStat plug-in. It is designed for HS 2.2+.

[Wadenut]

I'm beginning to think my TXB-16 is cursed.
It worked fine until I switched to heat mode this fall. Now, almost every day it stops responding. I've tried powering it and the PSC05 down, even replaced the PSC05. The only way I can get it to communicate again is to restart Homeseer. I've been through several HS betas between 66 to 135, and I expect the trouble started sometime in the interim. I had been using DooStat all summer, but switched back to RCSX10 after this started. Same results.
I'd reset the TSTAT but as luck has it the up button doesn't work most of the time on the WDU so I'll have a heck of a time reconfiguring it unless I take it apart and either clean or replace the switch.
I've seen on the board advice to delete the thm script (Z-Wave in that case) in case it's interfering, but HS just replaces the script on it's own. All of them in fact, even those I have no use for.
I'm considering disabling the plugin and using the script, in case it might help the situation, but having never done so, I'll need to study some.
As a last resort, I may invest in a Z-Wave Tstat, but I see here a lot of people have trouble with those as well.
I doubt very much the problem is directly attributable to the plugins, which is why I'm posting this here.
Any help or advise would be appreciated..

[dmurphy]

Did you try to software reset the tx16b?

I have two of the tx16b and two tz16 running on hs .66 with no issues.

[Wadenut]

Oh yeah! I did, and I've just spent the rest of the afternoon recovering from it.
Did the reset... Reconfigured the Stat at the WDU as expected. Then after multiple retries and restarts and reboots, not to mention a plugin reinstall... not once but twice so far, found that the stat had reset itself to houscode A. As of ten minutes ago, it's working again but for how long I can't say. This thing has been a pain since I bought it two years ago.

[Wadenut]

Oh yeah! I did, and I've just spent the rest of the afternoon recovering from it.
Did the reset... Reconfigured the Stat at the WDU as expected. Then after multiple retries and restarts and reboots, not to mention a plugin reinstall... not once but twice so far, found that the stat had reset itself to houscode A. As of ten minutes ago, it's working again but for how long I can't say. This thing has been a pain since I bought it two years ago.

[dmurphy]

Certainly the X10 stats are more work than the zwave ones. But once I got them setup, they've been solid enough. Have you an X10 analyzer? I have once had random noise created by the 'low power' air cleaners. (Only happens when they need cleaning...drives x10 mad. That and X10 presets are the biggest challenge. I do use the latest doostat from Jim's site.

[Wadenut]

Now that's entirely possible. We do have an air cleaner in the living room (ionizer type). While it's never seemed to be a problem I can put a X10 filter on it and see what happens. Can't hurt.

[dmurphy]

Sorry to bust your bubble.....I have an X10 filter on, to no avail....Seems to run for weeks, then craps out with tons of noise. I'm blaming the unit needing clean or the seating of the element in the holder. Either way when X10 things start going funny, I unplug them first now and see what happens.