ready to purchase for whole house audio...need to make sure of a few things

[completelyhis]

I have Harman Kardon avr-325 which has 7.1, 50w (8ohm) per channel. The two rear surrounds can be a "zone II" type of setup, which I would like to send to the ab8ss unit.

I'm looking at purchasing the following:

ab8ss (of course)
combination of two way 4" and two way 6 1/2" enclosed ceiling speakers (rated at 25w rms/50w max for the 6 1/2" and 20/40 for the 4")

My concern is whether or not the speakers, the receiver/amp, and the ab8ss will all work well together (based on the following chart:

Resistance impedance matching information:
Number of speakers selected= 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Ohm load seen by amplifier= 8.49 4.98 4.13 3.96 4.05 4.27 4.85 4.92
% power to speakers= 94 80 64 50 40 31 29 20
max power internal resistors 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80
max power speakers 156 80 53 40 33 27 29 20
max power from AMP 166 100 83 80 83 87 98 100


also, I'm not a hard core audiophile, and I'd like to get away with running one speaker in each room. Here are some questions about that:

1. How can I guestimate if one speaker will be good for a room that's a certain size, and which size of speaker I should use in which room?
2. I know the ab8ss is set up for 8 PAIRS of speakers...is there a strategic way of placing / wiring the speakers so that I can have 16 zones from one ab8ss, or should I just get a second unit, maybe placing the speakers in such a way as to be able to add a second speaker if I want to, in the future?

also, for keeping the Mrs happy, I plan on installing a manual volume control in each room. the only one i can find cost $25 each, and is made to handle a whole group of speakers. anyone know of where I can find a cheaper/simpler volume control that can handle just one or two speakers?

[completelyhis]

follow up thought:


I have the w800, and a bunch of stick on wall remote things...thinking about placing one in each room, the dim/bright would be for volume up/down, temp up/down, and who knows what else (those rf switches have three unit codes on the same house number, right?)

so, can the ab8ss have independant volume control via the rs232 plugin?

[GregKing]

One thing to keep in mind is that as more speakers are switched in, the volume decreases throughout.

In my situation, I have 3 pairs hooked up. When one is selected and I add another pair, there is a small drop in volume, but when the third pair is added, there is a little bit bigger drop.

It's not a big deal, but if you intend to have lots of speakers hooked up, there will be a drop in volume. More importantly, if you are dymanically changing the number of connected speakers, then you'll get fluctuating levels of volume. The local volume control will help to balance the system, but will not eliminate the problem if other speakers are connected/disconnected.

gk

[completelyhis]

a few questions:

1. is it possible to compensate for this by having HS step up the volume to the unit incrimentally as it turns on more speakers?
2. is there a better solution?
3. volume leveling being as it is, are the equipment options I'm considering correct?

[dkindred]

Hello, fellow brother, Ian.

The AB8SS is a really nice switcher. I've had a couple for a bunch of years now, and they 100% of the time. That having been said, there is the one drawback that Greg mentioned of the speaker volume changing as you turn on/off speakers. I only notice it when I turn on/off half of the speakers at a time, but maybe that's because I only use it for background music instead of active listening.

The AB8SS is only a relay switcher. It can turn on/off pairs of speakers but cannot control individual volume levels. Ray Newman has designed another set of switchers called the "ESS" line which will have volume control capability, but he's a one-man shop, and needs to find funding to start making them. In other words, you might be in for a really long wait if you want those.

The WAF-AB8SS plug-in does let you know how many speakers are active, so you could change the volume level of HS to compensate for different numbers of speakers being on via a simple script.

I'm sure your amplifier would be more than adequate for the AB8SS. Both my amps are cheapies with lower power, and they provide plenty of power for the whole house.

If you wanted to place one speaker in each room, it would probably work fine for background music and for announcements. Of course, the only way you could hear stereo music would be if you stood in the doorway between two rooms.

I've purchased ~$20 in-wall impedance matching (you need these) volume controls from Worthington Distribution and am quite satisfied with them. You definitely want to control the volume separately in each room, as the floor coverings and type of furniture can make one room sound louder than another room with the same speaker power.

I don't know if you should go for two AB8SS or one. I went for two so I could have switched stereo music in all the rooms, controlled by volume knob, and a separate system used only for annoucements (one speaker per room) that has no volume knob in each room. So, that's three (cheapie) speakers per room. I'm very happy with this setup.

BTW, I had reason to communicate with Ray over the past few days. He said that his NY based assembler was unreliable, so he's trying to find another one. He thinks he won't have more AB8SS's available for 2 - 3 weeks.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

--David

[completelyhis]

Well, I'd like to have a system that had built in volume control, but ya take what you can get...I can't seem to find a device like that, so I'll probably install the in wall volume controls.

I did request such a device from the ab8ss website, but based on what you said, i'm not too optimistic.

[stevene]

I think an alternative to the AB8SS would the the HACS ESS line.

with the right selection of the correct ESS switches you could duplicate the AB8SS setup and have volume control for each room.

While this sounds like a great solution, the only problem is Ray has not released those devices yet. As I have been waiting been waiting.

In case your wondering the link is http://www.hacs.com/ess.html.

I wonder what the time line on the ESS switches are, I haven't heard any news in a long while..

StevenE

[completelyhis]

is there/would there be a plugin that supports the ess line? would it have infrared control? how would it compare in terms of cost with the ab8ss?

[dkindred]

I think the ESS line would be really cool for all of us HAers, but at this time, it's still vaporware. Ray designed the stuff a long time ago, but he's a one man shop and doesn't have a pile of cash. He's shared with me in the past what it costs to get new products rolling (tooling, casing, assembly, etc.) It's really expensive. He'll likely need an investor before he can start making the ESS line.

Ian, to answer your other questions, a new plug-in specifically for the ESS would have to be written. The last I heard, I don't think IR was going to be implemented in the individual units, but maybe in the main unit, because IR leakage is a really big problem. I think it would cost more than an AB8SS, but you would be saving the cost of the volume controls in each room.

--David

[completelyhis]

The more I look, the more I realize there is nothing out there that will do all that I want it to...still seems like the ess line would be best. I wonder if he could fund it by do some pre-purchase type of arrangement...I'd be willing to pay now, get it a few months later...I don't know about other people.

[stevene]

I certainly have been waiting, they would go perfectly for the rest of my installation.


StevenE

[zimmer62]

I've been waiting over a year.

I'm at the point where I'm ready to look for a new solution instead.

[completelyhis]

If you do find something else which meets your needs, I'd love to hear about it! As I sit, all I want is for HS to control volume and speaker on/off for each zone, shouldn't be too hard, but the ESS seems to be the only thing that will/would do it.

[zimmer62]

If you do find something else which meets your needs, I'd love to hear about it! As I sit, all I want is for HS to control volume and speaker on/off for each zone, shouldn't be too hard, but the ESS seems to be the only thing that will/would do it.

So far I've got two different ideas.

One is to buy a bunch of receivers that support infrared on/off volume, mute and possibly balance. Then using the secu-16ir I'll control the volume and location of each speaker.

Oh yeah... I think there are some car stereos that will run with an aux input and infrared that would make nice smaller sized amps for each zone.

The other option I've come up with is to use a bunch of cheap amps.
The Sonic Impact T-Amp 5066 can be had for around $30 or less
http://www.cybergiftcenter.com/appli...29&sku=CS-5066

Then modifying this amp, by replacing the POT that's in it with a 1-wire pot (DS2890), and running this on a 1-wire network.

At the moment, both options seem viable for me, but I'd reather get a solution that's ment for it such as the ESS, I'm not sure how much longer I can wait. Recently I picked up a pair of Teac receivers for $64 each, I figured this would get me by for now.

I've looked at the sonos again and again, it seems pretty sweet, but I'm not sure I'm ready for the investment into that solution.

[completelyhis]

Those both seem like good ideas. The receiver for each zone has some pros/cons, from my initial thoughts...pro is that you'd have complete input control (I have a setup where I could run the audio out from the HS sound card to a multiplier type of deal, then run it to each receiver. The downside is the space issue...if you have 8 zones...that's a lot of receivers!

Amps would take up less space, I'm not sure what the POT is that you'd replace...I have a temp08...the one wire options is intriguing to me. I wonder if a 1 wire volume control type of setup could be made that would just go in line w/ the speaker wires (maybe just the Pos wire?)

Sonace is too expensive for me, as well, at this point.