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Propane level monitoring with RD3 hall-effect sensor

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    #16
    "but I would be very careful about any type of switch or relay in the vicinity of the tank, especially under the cap. Note that the Robertshaw transmitter is rated "intrinsically" safe whatever that means."

    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ha...ion-d_345.html

    The electrical classification of a propane tank would probably be Class 1 Div 2 which indicates that hydrocarbon vapor could be present in abnormal situations e.g. a leak during filling.

    In this classification, intrinsically safe equipment is required.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_safety

    Safety of design cannot be stressed enough when it comes to dealing with hydrocarbons, especially when vapor can exist.

    I ran across this use of load cells for a large propane tank (I have been considering a similar problem for a 275 gallon heating oil tank in the basement)

    http://www.propanecouncil.org/uploadedFiles/11722.pdf

    While they were not happy with the cost effectiveness of their result, the concept of using a load cell is appealing. For a fill/no fill decision I would think a single load cell would be sufficient. Mounting such a device in an as-built situation may be an issue however.

    Mark

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      #17
      Implemented RobertShaw Propane Monitor script

      After coming up to our house twice this winter to find the Propane had run out. (The Propane company Degree Days routine doesn't work well with intermittent house usage), I went ahead and got the setup mentioned in the post above (http://forums.homeseer.com/showpost.php?p=901785&postcount=13)

      It is working fine and I called our Propane company and set up an arrangement for me to email their Operations desk when the level gets low. They were quite happy to work with me and really wanted to avoid Propane Out situations.

      I had to sign an NDA with RobertShaw so I can't post the code, but would share it with anyone that shows me their NDA.

      Comment


        #18
        Monitoring Propane Tank Levels via PC

        I stumbled upon this thread... Perhaps a solution I came up with can help some of you.

        My underground 500g propane tank had a sensor ready gauge on it.
        I installed a R3D Hall Effect module (sensor) on the gauge.
        I had buried a 1.5" plastic conduit from the tank into my home anticipating remote monitoring and not trusting wireless technology for it.
        Tank is 125' from the house.
        I ran normal Cat-5 in the conduit - connecting the three leads of the Hall Effect module - use two pairs to deal with common mode rejection and insure a stable signal 125' away.
        Inside the house I have a "monitoring" PC that captures data from a bunch of temperature sensors, wind and solar power sensors.
        There is also a USB analog/digital I/O device on this PC keeping track of various things.
        Wrote a simple C++ program that sends +5V to the tank sensor for a few seconds via a digital output - while reading the output voltage of the sensor on an analog input. Using the voltage to level table provided by the R3D, I get a very accurate and very reliable reading of the tank level into my PC. Has never failed - is completely immune to weather.

        Results are here for me (or anyone) to see from anywhere at anytime: http://NovaBarnTemps.selfip.com updated every minute.
        Same program will send me eMail when anything needs attention - including the need for a tank refill (triggered at 30% full).

        I'm sure HomeSeer could use that same technology...

        Good luck - have fun!
        Gene

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          #19
          Monitoring Propane Tanks via Web based controller

          Does anyone have any updates to monitoring propane tanks?

          I was going to use an X320 Controlbyweb device to monitor the Rochester Hall effect dial. However getting a hold of the Hall-Effect module is very difficult. The dial is easy to obtain, but it seems Rochester Gauges has a relationship with Robert Shaw and keeps hose modules in tight control. Crazy business model in my eyes...

          Where can you obtain the hall-effect module and which one did you use?
          Rochester makes them, but I also believe Taylor manufactures them also.

          I have a similar setup, a 500 gal propane tank with a CatV wire run underground and am looking to monitor the tank levels without paying through some continuing service model based systems like Centeron.

          Thanks, Rob

          Comment


            #20
            Referring to my post above (http://board.homeseer.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=17), the equipment was purchased and there are no recurring costs.

            Equipment I purchased:
            RPS000T, list pice $283.37
            SIC86640, list price $123.17
            GSDJR0HAE00, list price $7.28

            Purchased from bergquistinc.com [No relationship]

            It has been working fine - notified propane company by email twice last year that tank needed filling.

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              #21
              I am not sure how you have this configured. You said "you just go to the page". What page are you referring to. Is the page on the arduino? I would be very interested in seeing your code for this.

              Comment


                #22
                This seems like a good application for trigboard which is a very low power device. It does push, but I think intended for smartphone to receive the notification. I have one to play with, but have not taken it out of the package yet.

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                  #23
                  Can anyone advise where to purchase the Hall Effect 'r3d' sensors that plug into the gauges? Usual Googling hasn't been successful other than finding full systems at astronomical cost. The OP said they contacted the supplier and someone found one on eBay, but not finding anything.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by swintech View Post
                    Can anyone advise where to purchase the Hall Effect 'r3d' sensors that plug into the gauges? Usual Googling hasn't been successful other than finding full systems at astronomical cost. The OP said they contacted the supplier and someone found one on eBay, but not finding anything.
                    I have not ordered one, but I believe the part number is ā€œ9701-00014.ā€ If you search for that on eBay there are usually a few options. However, the going rate seems to be $80 plus shipping. For that price I will likely just get a Tank Utility propane monitor.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Click image for larger version

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                      I know this probably isnt the right place but I started my journey for this project by finding this topic on this forum and found it hugely helpful so I wanted to share.
                      My method is based on ESP32 via ESPHome on Home Assistant. I hope that details on my setup and how I built it will help others with their project.

                      I have been looking at this for a while. First off - I don't recommend my setup in any way and accept no liability if someone were to try and replicate my setup. Do so at your own risk, adhere to best safe practices and depending on where you live, follow the law.

                      There is undoubtedly a more economical efficient and probably safer way of doing this - no need to point that out. You can of course buy off the shelf solutions like Tank Utility.
                      My tank is above ground, away from any buildings and no where near neighbours. Closest is over 100m away on a different elevation.

                      I started with a solar powered ZigBee router which I had built to extend my mesh out to the end of my driveway for a postbox sensor. In its old location it also powered a ZigBee PIR sensor, and I had plans for automating my driveway gate. I built it as a standalone solar powered platform with expandability for future projects, which ended up being exactly what I used it for.

                      It looks a bit messy but everything is hard mounted, no loose connections and has so far already survived a year outside without any intervention.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      SOLAR CHARGER:
                      Solar charger and panel from Adafruit:
                      https://www.adafruit.com/product/390

                      The frame is just some aluminium angle I had lying around with some slate for a roof.
                      If you do some CAD you can make it adjustable for optimum angle throughout the year. Rivnuts make adjustment a breeze - remove two bolts, change panel angle, put bolts back in to one of 4 pre-set positions.


                      TANK & GAUGE:

                      Click image for larger version

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                      My tank is a 2200L horizontal above ground tank with a horizontally mounted Rochester gauge.
                      I replaced this gauge with a Rochester R3D-Lp remote ready gauge:

                      https://gb.jmesales.com/rochester-ga...8aAiSPEALw_wcB

                      The black plastic tab pulls out to allow fitment of a hall effect sensor cable.

                      I suspect that this gauge isn't actually necessary and you could get readings by taping your hall effect sensor over a non remote ready gauge.

                      Replacing the gauge is just a case of removing two screws. It's a user replaceble part and is not plumbed into the tank. The gauge is magnetic and so contactless. Just dont touch the four bolts on the housing for the guage and you will be fine.


                      ESP32 & HALL EFFECT MODULE:
                      So given my starting point, it made a lot more sense to buy an ESP32 board for a few bucks and try to DIY this.

                      This page pointed me in the direction of the KY-024 hall effect module that would work with the ESP32:

                      https://diyi0t.com/hall-sensor-tutor...o-and-esp8266/


                      ESP32 CONFIG:

                      esphome:
                      name: gas-meter
                      platform: ESP32
                      board: esp32dev

                      substitutions:
                      device_name: home-assistant-gas
                      friendly_name: Gas
                      device_description: "Measure your gas consumption with remote hall effect sensor"

                      wifi:
                      ssid: !secret wifi_ssid
                      password: !secret wifi_password

                      # Enable fallback hotspot (captive portal) in case wifi connection fails
                      ap:
                      ssid: "Gas-Meter Fallback Hotspot"
                      password: "XXXXXXXXXXX"


                      captive_portal:

                      # Enable logging
                      logger:

                      # Enable Home Assistant API
                      api:
                      password: !secret esphome_api_password

                      ota:
                      safe_mode: true
                      reboot_timeout: 10min
                      num_attempts: 5

                      web_server:
                      port: 80
                      auth:
                      username: !secret esphome_web_username
                      password: !secret esphome_web_password

                      deep_sleep:
                      id: deep_sleep_1
                      run_duration: 5min
                      sleep_duration: 55min

                      mqtt:
                      broker: XXX.XXX.XXX.X
                      port: XXXX
                      username: !secret mqtt_username
                      password: !secret mqtt_password
                      birth_message:
                      will_message:
                      on_message:
                      - topic: gas_meter/ota_mode
                      payload: 'ON'
                      then:
                      - deep_sleep.prevent: deep_sleep_1
                      - topic: gas_meter/sleep_mode
                      payload: 'ON'
                      then:
                      - deep_sleep.enter: deep_sleep_1

                      # Sensors for ESP version and WIFI information
                      text_sensor:
                      - platform: version
                      hide_timestamp: true
                      name: "${friendly_name} - ESPHome Version"
                      - platform: wifi_info
                      ip_address:
                      name: "${friendly_name} - IP Address"
                      icon: mdi:wifi
                      ssid:
                      name: "${friendly_name} - Connected SSID"
                      icon: mdi:wifi-strength-2

                      # Example configuration entry
                      sensor:
                      - platform: adc
                      pin: GPIO32
                      name: "Remote Hall"
                      update_interval: 2min
                      attenuation: 11db
                      filters:
                      - lambda: return x * (63.5593220338983) + (-59.83050847457626) - 1.5;
                      unit_of_measurement: "%"


                      CONVERTING VOLTAGE TO TANK FILL PERCENTAGE:

                      I used a 5m USB cable from Amazon - any will do, but best not to be cheap. Go for a nice thick shielded cable. Better chance the outer sheath of the cable will be UV stable too.

                      Desolder the hall effect sensor from the end of the KY-024 module and extend using the usb cable. This can then be glued inside the black pullout tab. Some experimenting is required to find the right position. I first taped it in place and rotated the guage to change the needle position and ensure that I was seeing voltages which made sense. Going from low 1.02V for 5% on the gauge up to 2.3V for 95%. You can see the spacing is not uniform around the dial - more on that in a bit.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Once happy with the position, hot glue/epoxy the sensor to seal it into the underside of the black plastic tab.

                      So this gives you a bunch of voltages but you want to know the fill percentage.
                      First thing you need to do is is rotate the guage to log voltage readings in ESPHome for the full range of the gauge at uniform intervals; 10, 20, 30, 40% etc. and write them down.

                      Now look at the difference between the voltages.
                      Mine was mostly linear ( same increase in voltage from 10-20% as from 30-40% ) but non linear below 10% and anything above 80%

                      This wasn't a problem for me as the tank should never get below 10% fill and isn't filled beyond 80%


                      SCALE AND OFFSET CALCULATOR

                      You then take the voltage min and max and put it into this handy calculator:

                      https://www.vboxmotorsport.co.uk/ind...en/calculators

                      This gives you the SCALE and the OFFSET. In the config above these numbers go here:

                      - lambda: return x * (SCALE) + (OFFSET) - 1.5;
                      unit_of_measurement: "%"

                      And presto! You now have a sensor in home assistant that gives you tank fill level as a percentage.
                      Now within ESPHome you can allow for non linear progressions but I already feel out of depth with this.
                      I had to do a lot of exprimenting to get a readout within 1% of the value shown on the gauge itself. Realistically, thats probably within margin of error.

                      IMPORTANT NOTE:- the lambda above has "-1.5" at the end of it. I had to put this in to correct my readings as all were out by "+1.5". You would need to delete that part.


                      OTHER MODS:

                      EXTERNAL ANTENNA
                      ESP32 remote WiFi antenna:

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                      I recommend just buying one that comes with an external antenna and has the connector already on the board instead of soldering one on like I did.
                      I followed this guide:

                      https://community.home-assistant.io/...p-board/131601

                      Works fantastically. I have stone walls around 2ft thick with no external wifi extender and still manage to get 2 bars with no direct line of sight.


                      DEEP SLEEP
                      Now I'm still tinkering with switching deep sleep off via MQTT message from a home assistant automation to allow OTA updates without it sleeping.
                      But otherwise it's doing what its supposed to. It wakes for 5mins, sends the data and goes to sleep for 55mins.

                      I had the solar panel rig inside for two days and didn't drain the battery despite it being left in OTA mode sending data for longer periods.

                      This bodes well for adding more projects with additional power draws in the future.


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                      THANKS!

                      Thank you for reading. Apologies if this isn't the right place for this but in my travels across the web, a lot of other forums point towards this topic page so I do hope it could help others as a starting point. It certainly helped me.

                      Obviously tons of room for improvement and I would love to see where people with a bit more know-how could take this.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        EDIT:

                        Speaking of obvious room for improvement - compensating for temperature.
                        As external temperature drops, the volume of liquid petroleum gas decreases. This will of course be exaggerated in winter. With a temperature probe attached to the tank, it should be possible to compensate for this. Why is this degree of accuracy necessary? Well, for estimating volume of gas used in L or m3.
                        I already have a counter set up in home assistant which can track daily and monthly usage but without compensating for temperature, this won't be very accurate and so estimating running costs wont be either. I may look into this in the future, but for now I'm building a Bindacator for my kid šŸ˜Ž

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Polarblair View Post
                          Thank you for reading. Apologies if this isn't the right place for this but in my travels across the web, a lot of other forums point towards this topic page so I do hope it could help others as a starting point. It certainly helped me.

                          Obviously tons of room for improvement and I would love to see where people with a bit more know-how could take this.
                          Polarblair - thanks for posting. I registered here just to pick your brain a bit. I appreciate you sharing about using the SS4E based KY-024. I ordered one to see if I can get something setup for my underground tank.

                          I'm curious how you have the actual hall effect sensor positioned so that you get the range of output that you posted?

                          I removed the r3d dial from my tank and brought it back in the house where it's a bit warmer. Holding the sensor with the beveled side toward the gauge where the dust cap slots in, I'm only getting an output between 2.19V - 2.90V. I'm using a 5v input voltage, compared to the ESP32 3.3V, but it doesn't seem to be enough of a voltage range to be accurate. Is this due to the absence of the magnet that 'drives' the dial when I'm working with it on my workbench? I'm using a tiny neo-magnet to help me position the needle, but maybe it's not strong enough to affect the sensor like the one in the tank will?

                          I look forward to your feedback.

                          Thanks, Dustin in Missouri USA

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Played around with this a bit more last night. I stuffed some putty into the dust cap and stuck the hall sensor with the beveled side facing up (so that it will be towards the dial). I also cut a small notch in the dust cap to allow the wires to pass through. Slid the dust cap back in place and now am getting a good voltage range (2.02V @ 5% dial and 2.95V @ ~90%). Pretty linear readings with the decimal voltage values almost lining up with the percentage values.

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                            I also found that the rest of the KY-024 circuitry is unnecessary since Iā€™m not using the digital out signal from it and the SS49E by itself gives me everything I need. Should reduce power consumption a tiny bit right? šŸ˜

                            Now to start writing some code.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              I put the sensor here. Hopefully the picture shows the relative position to the gauge Click image for larger version

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                                #30
                                Hi guys and thanks Polarblair. I have made my own sensor using your very useful instructions. Now, I have a question as I'm getting some weird results. From 80% to 50% full tank I get very distinct, almost linear voltages. However starting on 40% the slope changes and I get almost the same voltage for each % change in tank capacity. Can you think of something that might be causing this? I'm using the suggested sensors and hardware. Thanks in advance for any insight. This is how my curve looks like now:

                                Click image for larger version

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