Omni Pro - HS - X10 challenge

[cborod]

Challenge.....Omni Pro II handling all home automation
HS = computer logical interface
MainLobby = graphical interface

Fully licensed versions, most recent versions for all products. Using the HAI plugin, HAI Thermostat Plugin, MLHSPlugin etc. (also latest known revs)

I have full bi-directional function of thermostats, zones, virtual devices, etc. using this setup. As long as there is a "variable" assigned in HS, I can address it, monitor, and change it in ML via the MLHSPlugin and MLserver.

So far, so good.....

In HS I can control lights via the Omni using the associated lighting panel (web interface). It discovered the panel, mapped the lights and names perfectly.


However, there appears to be no logical, or virtual mapping of those Omni lights to their true X10 value so MLHSPlugin can control and monitor them.

Aside from hanging a CM11a off the HS box (which I do not want to do), how can I assign variables to the Omni lighting units so they become devices so ML can manage them?

Krumpy has been most helpful in helping me understand it's not a MLHSPlugin problem but it is the device/non device mapping in HS that is tripping me up.

He mentioned something about a Beta HAI plugin that might help? Instead of Omni lights being their own world, they would actually map to X10....?

Help, please!

[Rick Tinker]

For the past several versions of the HAI plug-in, the ability has existed for devices to be created for any/all of the items in the panel, including lighting control devices.

If you have the plug-in create devices for the HAI lighting units, then ML can interface to them.

The devices are created with status/value pairs, so it is not a concern that they do not follow the standard X10 nomenclature for commands and status display - ML can (or should by now) be able to handle status/value pairs on devices.

The devices are not created to the HomeSeer X-10 device nomenclature because many of the lighting types (Compose, UPB, etc.) do not follow it, and the devices are an interface to the HAI units, not HS devices.

If you set a value on a HomeSeer device that corresponds to an HAI lighting unit, the HAI plug-in will set the unit to the appropriate level, so control of the lighting devices is possible.

As a side note: The lowest form of X-10 control interfaces is a tossup between the TW523/PSC05 and the CM11A. The TW/PSC cannot receive extended data commands, which rules them out for working with some of the Leviton X-10 products, and the CM11A has numerous bugs and issues with it. The HAI panel forces you to use the TW/PSC, but if you are considering device control through HomeSeer, you would be undermining your reliability using a CM11A. If you are looking for an inexpensive interface, I believe the PowerLinc USB is the next least expensive interface that works well.

I understand your desire to have the HAI control everything, but you have to consider a couple of facts: 1. X10 does not lend itself to doing a good job of status tracking unless you own 100% two-way devices. 2. The HAI panel is the world's poorest excuse for an X-10 interface when it comes to receiving or "hearing" X-10 signals and tracking unit status; it chooses to notify external applications (Omni-Link protocol) on only a fraction of the X-10 signal receptions that can affect lighting. Bottom line is, whether X-10, UPB, or any of the other lighting technologies that HAI supports, you will get much better control and status using HomeSeer as the primary interface to them.

[cborod]

Rick:


Okay...thank you for the info. Last question...perhaps a quick one line instruction of "creating the device."....I can add devices via the web page but these appear to be different from the devices HS created for the Omni lights. Is there a reference in the manual I am missing or a command line I could execute? SOrry to be acting stupid.....just looking for one example I can learn from and clone......

Thanks!

[Rick Tinker]

No problem - most of the time, devices are created from the HomeSeer UI screen, but devices owned by plug-ins are generally created by the plug-in, and that is the case in this situation. Go to the configuration page for the HAI plug-in and you should see the option to use devices for (zones, units, thermostats...) only choose the ones you need.

When you save that configuration, the devices will be created.

[cborod]

will do! Thanks

[4Shelby]

Rick,

Thanks for the info above. I believe you have written several times over about the benefits of control direct from HS vs HAI. While I agree, I've gone a different way for a couple of reasons. The reason I bring this up is to get your thoughts as well as to better understand if the logic is true for HAI/X10 as it is for HAI/UPB:
- I like a modular, decoupled architecture. I think of lighting, HVAC, home theator, security, as separate modules. I use HS to glue these separate moduals together.
- The benefit is that I can decouple dependancies and manage changes individually. If I need to take my HS system down for upgrades or maintenance, then my lighting, HVAC will still be up and operational (maybe not fully automated [changes based on outside weather conditions] but its still up and working..) If I want to upgrade my HVAC automation, I can do that too.
- Im not too worried about reliability as I think there as been enough said about that. HS runs on a Compaq Server (not a PC) running W2K3 standard and is rock solid stable. (Hence some of my delay in upgrading to HS2...)

Anyhow, does HAI handle UPB better than X10? My lighting is X10 (Cm11a-HS controlled) today moving to UPB (would like to to via HAI OMNI instead of HS).

Thanks!!
~Ray

[cborod]

I'm still not getting the devices for lighting created.....but decided to start over clean.....so this weekend will tell the tale. It will also allow me to upgrade the OTTO computer from XP to Server2003 and do a completely clean install of HS. I can force the plugin to add (or delete) virtually every device EXCEPT the range of "units" within the traditional X-10 space which in the Omni is units 1-256. I get all the units flags counters and outputs above 256, I get all the zones, all the thermostats, everything....and I turned on and off the web based controls for the plugin as well as the .ini controls.....so clean slate, fresh start.....just to be sure I have everything right.

to the new part of the thread......

For the past 5 years I have relied on the HAI to control everything.....lots of logic, cool gadgets, thermostats, humidity sensors, rain sensors, etc. So regardless of season, weather, conditions, I can program and predict the HAI response. My X-10 installation is two-way fully meshed as well, and the HAI is there within milliseconds getting the updates.

It is specifically when the power goes out for long periods of time and the server's UPS no longer holds (and I haven't gotten home to crank the gen) or other events like I decided to upgrade the server farm....that it's nice to have all the functions just work even though HS is "down." Again, I went the HS route not so much for the control, but as a middleware for the graphical interface in ML.

[cborod]

HS HAI integration update.

As promised, I scrubbed my entire install, started clean and I am still stumped.

HS creates variables (devices) for everything except units 1-256.

I have tried various tweaks to the device creation section but no units 1-256.....

????

[cborod]

Please understand I am not complaining....just trying to make this work.


SO....in that spirit, can I either through scripting or magic create the devices I want to create for my HAI units 1-256 (I can deal with whatever variable gets assigned) just so I can use these units in ML?

If I can, may I request an example that I can learn from and clone?

If I cannot, then I'll be looking at other HS->X-10 options that will allow a device to be created. I paid my $$ so I am absolutely committed to HS & ML....there's too much good stuff here to drop it, so I just have to make it work!

Understand, I'm new to HS so I don't have the long line of scripting experience many of the SEERs have.....but I am willing to learn! Just looking for the right advice.

Thanks so far for the help and thanks in advance for the future stuff too.

[Rick Tinker]

cborod,

I have to apologize - either I did not realize that you were referring to X-10 issues, or I was just plain stupid - the only lighting devices that can be created at those for ALC lighting devices, and the bUseDev_A option in the INI controls this.

I did not make it possible to have X-10 devices created because of the extremely poor support for received X-10 commands that the panel has. If I created those devices, people would expect them to be kept updated, and the panel does not lend itself to that happening very well at all.

So we back to square one, and I don't know what to do to advise you on how to get a good linkage between ML and these devices except to create the devices in HomeSeer. With an X-10 interface on HomeSeer, it can "hear" the X-10 signals sent by the panel, and can be used to control those devices just like the panel still could. I think that is your best way to go with it.

[cborod]

Gotcha.....alright, so the USB Power LINK unit probably meets the need....then I create individual X-10 devices that map to or duplicate what is already in HAI.

That said, will I have any problems with "overlap" by essentially having two entries for the same device? I am thinking that for now, until I get better at HS programming, I'll leave the automagic lighting changes in HAI and more or less just reflect the changes in HS->ML allowing for ad-hoc changes from ML->HS.

Moving on up......THANKS!

[Rick Tinker]

Absolutely no problems with the devices existing in both places.

[cborod]

Rick: Thanks for the help.....until the USB unit arrives I placed a CM11A online added some units...and it works just fine! Yes, a bit slow, but good proof of concept. Now off to the laboratory..... thanks! ChrisB

[dbruner10]

Tink;

First of all - Hi! It has been some time since I poked my head into the forum, but this thread caught my eye, as I am a systems integrator and both an OnQ and HAI dealer. I last talked to you on the show floor in Indy.

I agree with your comments above concerning the HAI panel and X-10. It was a poor integration. All panels since April have shipped with UPB. They still support X-10, but its finally on the way out of the door.

The 3 options I use all the time in my installs for lighting are UPB, RadioRA and ALC. They all have there place and are very well integrated with HAI. I no longer use X-10 for installs.

If you have not checked out the new HLC line from HAI controlled by an HAI panel, then you owe it to yourself to do so. They are rock solid with an OmniPro II, and offer superior control and feedback.

My point is that I think you should consider adding UPB/HLC control in the HAI plugin for HS2. It would make this plugin much more powerful when coupled with a Cinemar/HomeSeer implementation.