JDS for HomeSeer 2.1 BETA

[ajackson123]

Can't remember this for sure, but I think that when I experienced some of the same issues RJ told me to delete the JDS.ini file, and all Stargate devices, then do a fresh re-import. All has been well since then (but back up the JDS.ini file in case it doesn't get re-created).

[KLS]

Can't remember this for sure, but I think that when I experienced some of the same issues RJ told me to delete the JDS.ini file, and all Stargate devices, then do a fresh re-import. All has been well since then (but back up the JDS.ini file in case it doesn't get re-created).

Yes - Agent 'J' did advise me to do this also and it worked great.
Now that was for a total clean re-import not an update. What happens if I add just a single flag to my SG device database and re-import again into HS from SG?
I don't know but I hope it wouldn't mess up any devices already present. If it does, then we need to continue to work on the re-import. As I suggested a few weeks ago - maybe there could be a way to clear out or delete the JDS.ini and sample.mdb files for a complete re-import and a method to just update devices if small changes were made to the SG device database.

[Cairndhu1]

Flags Revisited

Flags (at least in the current Beta Release under Updater) are usable but somewhat incoveniently, e.g., if HS sets a flag i.e., turns it ON in an Event, the SG Schedule sees it - but WinEVM does not unless you kill & restart it. This means you can use the flags but if you want to know their current state be sure to check HS not SG (unless you restart WinEVM).

BTW: Anybody, where do I go to download the latest and greatest SG Beta Plugin (so I can at least get rid of the obese variables)? ...and, for that matter, the latest and greatest HS 2.1 Build (as I assume HS has advanced beyond 102)? Thanks in advance for your help. Whitey

[KLS]

Flags (at least in the current Beta Release under Updater) are usable but somewhat incoveniently, e.g., if HS sets a flag i.e., turns it ON in an Event, the SG Schedule sees it - but WinEVM does not unless you kill & restart it. This means you can use the flags but if you want to know their current state be sure to check HS not SG (unless you restart WinEVM).

BTW: Anybody, where do I go to download the latest and greatest SG Beta Plugin (so I can at least get rid of the obese variables)? ...and, for that matter, the latest and greatest HS 2.1 Build (as I assume HS has advanced beyond 102)? Thanks in advance for your help. Whitey

Couple of things: Why is this a problem with WinEvm if HS sets a flag? I set a flag in HS, shutdown HS, started WinEvm and the flag was shown as set in WinEvm. I can only run HS OR WinEvm since they both use com2 on my system.
If SG detects the flag state change and your schedule acts upon it, isn't this ultimately what we wanted?
Maybe I am confused.

As for the latest SG plug-in beta - it is located in the first post of this thread.

[Cairndhu1]

Shutdown (HS or SG)?

Hummm! Anyway, I use "SerialSplitter" from Eltima Software such that the physical PC Serial Port (COM3 in my case) connected to SG COM1 is "split" into two full-duplex, Virtual Serial Ports; one for SG (COM2, since primitive SG only recognizes COM1 through COM4) and one (COM9) for HS. In this way, I have constant communication between the SG hardware, the WinEVM software sub-system, and the HS software sub-system. I repeat (WITH EMPHASIS for "Agent J"), no one should have to shutdown/restart anything; a change in a Variable or a Flag by HS should be seen ASAP by SG and vice versa (just like DI & RO). I import my stuff from SG into HS one class (e.g., DI, Flag, RO, Timer, Variable) at a time into Room JDS and then move each group to their own room (e.g., SG_DI, SG_Flag, SG_RO, SG_Timer, and SG_Variable). This sort of house keeping vastly improves useability and supportability (at least for me).

BTW1: I have just trashed the Variable table I was using for the non-functional flags (since the flags now function as you outline) and am in the process of doing the same with wav files requests from SG to HS (since I concentrate all wav output under HS), i.e., replacing a vector of Variable values (heavy maintenance) with a group of named flags (easy use). One should be able to ON (or OFF) a Flag in HS and have SG see it ASAP; one should be able to Set/Clear a flag in SG and have HS see it ASAP. Also, one should be able to Increment/Decrment/Clear a Variable in HS and have SG see it (and vice-versa) ASAP w/o any shutdowns or restarts.

BTW2: What is your position on a paid SG Plugin. e.g., an annual maintenance fee of, say $30 to $50, versus just crossing your fingers and relying on the largess of HomeSeer (they are a for-profit business, after all) to provide maintenance as Jeff changes things around?

[Cairndhu1]

Flag Brick Wall @ Import Count Higher Than 99

Troops, SG supports a vector of 255 flags; "Agent J" imports those present (ignoring blanks) until flag count reaches 99. All subsequent flags are imported with a unit ID of [1. A definite "Bug"! I cannot continue my Wav file upgrade sub-project until this problem gets fixed. While things work for me (i.e., using a single Variable whose numeric value determines which wav file HS should play) works, it is quite cumbersome (and a real maintenance nightmare).

We need help, "Agent J"!

[RJ]

How time files when I go on vacation...

Some things to address-

The 99 limit is something I was kind of crossing my fingers on and Hoping I could avoid, but it has reared its ugly head. I need to redo the way the plugin handles variables and flags, because as mentioned earlier HomeSeer has a limit of 99 devices per device code. I was hoping nobody had this problem, but since it has come up I will get to work on it.

I am no expert on WinEVM, but here is what I can tell you about running HomeSeer and WinEVM at the same time. Say you update a variable through HomeSeer. HomeSeer will send this change to the Stargate, and the Stargate will act accordingly. However, for WinEVM to detect the change, the Stargate would need to spit out that the variable has changed. In this case, since the variable was set by something outside the Stargate (i.e. Software), it will not send a status event back.

Now consider a different example. Something is manually changed on the Stargate (whether through an LCD keypad or other means), and the Stargate sends this change out to the computer. Both HomeSeer and WinEVM will intercept the change and act accordingly.

Basically, my point is that WinEVM and HomeSeer will not coexist easily. They are both designed to provide high level logic through macros and events, and if both are trying to accomplish the same thing there are bound to be problems.

I have also talked with Rich Helmke, and it looks like we are going to try to support some of the RS485 Stuff. I have a limeted protocol doc for the Relay XPanders (8CUR) which should help a bit with figuring that out. I will tak with Rich some more to determine whether the Keypads and Thermostats will be supported or not. (Right now that is probably a ways off.)

Pete- as per the paragraph above, they are not supported right now. I will look into supporting these in the future, but for now they are still out, with the exception of the 8CUR keypads.

Markrat- deleting the JDS.ini file and doing a re-import should fix this problem. Make sure "Update Existing Devices" is checked.

Terry- I dont know whether timer buttons will be implemented or not, as they were not there before and I am not sure how to go about that. Also, try the very latest version on your import, as I have tried it here and that error appears to be resolved.

I think that covers most everything, but really let me know if anyone is still confused. Or tired of reading

[KLS]

Trigger Events from JDS Security Devices

It seems I cannot trigger an event off the status change of my security devices.
I created an event to trigger on "Changed to On' and that didn't work when I faulted the zone. I tried 'Changed to Off' and 'Changed to any Status' and none of these produced an event trigger when I faulted a zone.
I have flags set to follow the states of my security devices in my SG schedule. The event I created will trigger from the changing states of these flags.

Ideas?
If we cannot trigger events from the security states, why import them?

Thanks!

[RJ]

Security is still not working, I have had no response from the Stargate Crew on how that communication is done. We do want to add it, and it isn't that difficult, I just need to get the protocol!

I will send out another email today to see if we can get some more info on this.

[KLS]

Security is still not working, I have had no response from the Stargate Crew on how that communication is done. We do want to add it, and it isn't that difficult, I just need to get the protocol!

I will send out another email today to see if we can get some more info on this.

Hello Agent 'J'!
Yea, I realize you will have your work cut out for you with the security stuff.
I'll keep your efforts in my prayers!

Good luck and if I can do anything to help please let me know.
Over and out...

(This message will self-distruct at some undtermined time and date...)

[scanr]

Progress

I thought a vacation would be only debugging one Plug-In!

99 limit is definitely a problem. There have been threads on this for a long time. I would have thought that this design "feature" was being resolved in HS 2 upgrade.

As to HS & WinEVM working together, I am not the expert here, but there are several of you out there that may help RJ (and new users) in conceptual design on how best to implement HS/SG combination. It has always been my understanding that the most functional implementation is for SG to handle low level critical functions, (security, sensor input, HVAC, etc.) and pass data up to HS for higher level manipulation etc. It isn't that HS can't do these things, but some are better left to SG, if the design intent is to use both. That being said, if there was some concensus on how the existing SG/HS logic flow works (or should work) in most applications, that may give Agent J and his team (self admitted non-WinEvm gurus) a clearer path on not only the plug-in today, but where it needs to grow to in the future.

Pete

How time files when I go on vacation...

Some things to address-

The 99 limit is something I was kind of crossing my fingers on and Hoping I could avoid, but it has reared its ugly head. I need to redo the way the plugin handles variables and flags, because as mentioned earlier HomeSeer has a limit of 99 devices per device code. I was hoping nobody had this problem, but since it has come up I will get to work on it.

I am no expert on WinEVM, but here is what I can tell you about running HomeSeer and WinEVM at the same time. Say you update a variable through HomeSeer. HomeSeer will send this change to the Stargate, and the Stargate will act accordingly. However, for WinEVM to detect the change, the Stargate would need to spit out that the variable has changed. In this case, since the variable was set by something outside the Stargate (i.e. Software), it will not send a status event back.

Now consider a different example. Something is manually changed on the Stargate (whether through an LCD keypad or other means), and the Stargate sends this change out to the computer. Both HomeSeer and WinEVM will intercept the change and act accordingly.

Basically, my point is that WinEVM and HomeSeer will not coexist easily. They are both designed to provide high level logic through macros and events, and if both are trying to accomplish the same thing there are bound to be problems.

I have also talked with Rich Helmke, and it looks like we are going to try to support some of the RS485 Stuff. I have a limeted protocol doc for the Relay XPanders (8CUR) which should help a bit with figuring that out. I will tak with Rich some more to determine whether the Keypads and Thermostats will be supported or not. (Right now that is probably a ways off.)

Pete- as per the paragraph above, they are not supported right now. I will look into supporting these in the future, but for now they are still out, with the exception of the 8CUR keypads.

Markrat- deleting the JDS.ini file and doing a re-import should fix this problem. Make sure "Update Existing Devices" is checked.

Terry- I dont know whether timer buttons will be implemented or not, as they were not there before and I am not sure how to go about that. Also, try the very latest version on your import, as I have tried it here and that error appears to be resolved.

I think that covers most everything, but really let me know if anyone is still confused. Or tired of reading

[RJ]

Well said Pete!

As a HomeSeer user from the getgo, I really see no reason to use WinEVM at all, but to each his own...

From my side of things, here is how I view the conceptual communication between HomeSeer and the Stargate:

• HomeSeer can trigger events based on any HomeSeer trigger (time, email, other plugin, etc.) and send commands to change states in the Stargate
• A physical change on the Stargate (i.e., outside of HomeSeer) can be used to trigger an event within HomeSeer to perform advanced HomeSeer actions
• The Stargate performs "Low Level" functions. If this means implementing the WinEVM "Schedule", then that is fine. HomeSeer will be aware of state changes within the Stargate
• HomeSeer performs "High Level" functions. This includes the Web UI, ability to trigger events and perform actions based on NON Stargate Devices, as well as enable remote access to the Stargate.

I think that sums up my views on it. I see this as a strictly HomeSeer <-> Stargate communication, but I do understand users who want to use WinEVM to perform other actions.

To address a few other things I have seen in this forum:

Price: This is still undecided. If we do go to a paid plugin, expect me to be watchin this forum and the Helpdesk regularly to resolve issues. As is HomeSeer's current policy, updates will be free, and I expect (but do not know) that there will not be any sort of "yearly fee", we will use this like any other HomeSeer plugin.

RS485: This still comes up a lot, and there are really two things that throw up a red flag on this:

• Development time: A lot of this would mean coding in the Thermostat API, as well as writing in the Keypad support from scratch. Can it be done? Yes. But we are not planing on adding this right now
• Price: Until we determine the futur of the price for the plugin, we will probably not know what the status is on this. If we go with a paid plugin, the chances of supporting these increases, but is not definite.

Just on a side note- if we were to add support for these items, I can tell what the functionality would be for the thermostats, but what about the LCD Keypads? I think that this wouldn't provide much benefit, but if there is something then I will investigate this further.

Whew... I'm starting to sound like Rick here...

[scanr]

RCS Offer of Support

From: scanr@one.net
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 7:17 AM
To: Sales@resconsys.com
Subject: Want to Purchase (4) 8CUR 001-0060

Application is Stargate with HomeSeer. HS is trying to update plug-in to
address devices on 485 Hub. Any technical support that RCS could provide to
RJ (HS programmer working on plug-in) would be most appreciated. Thank-you.

Scanr

RE: Want to Purchase (4) 8CUR 001-0060
From: "Tech Support" techsupport@resconsys.com
Date: Fri, August 18, 2006 2:53 pm
To: scanr@one.net

8CUR's are no longer available. Replaced by 8R5PR.

HS needs only to contact us for script/plug in issues/questions associated
with RCS products.

RCS, Inc

[RJ]

Hey guys-

Just got a new build. It may not seem like much, but it gives a lot of new functionality:

BETA BUILD 11 - Posted 8/18, also to updater Changes for this build:

• Added support for Security Devices (finally! but status only)
• Added support for 8CUR Relay devices, but these require polling of Relays
• Added support for over 99 Variables and Flags

Please note that this has not been fully tested, as we do not have this hardware to test with.

[KLS]

Agent 'J', how many security devices are supported with the latest release?
I have 46 and my import only brings in 45.