Any value in having more than 1 Hubitat hub?

[upstatemike]

The Hubitat hub is on Black Friday sale for a few more hours at a good price... Is there any scenario where it would make sense to have more than one of these?

[Michael McSharry]

I am new to the product, but generally there is one controller for a set of devices. If your range, including the router nodes, is not sufficient then a second could be used. Likely easier to add a router than adding a hub, but if you multiple technologies at more distant locations then a second hub may make sense.

[Vit]

From reading the Hubitat forum, I believe many people use multi-hub arrangements. I have two; and as Mike suggested, because of the range-related issues.
It is not exactly an apple-to-apple comparison but still, given the price of Z-Net, buying an extra Hubitat hub was a relatively easy decision to make.

[Bigstevep]

You can use multiple Hubitat Hubs and Smartthings Hubs and use the Hub Connect app (in Hubitat) to connect them all together. I use a Smartthings Hub and two Hubitat Hubs with this plugin to extend their network to HS3 without issues. Just search Hub Connect Hubitat. There are guides of how to do it there. Homeseer will recognize most of the devices using Hub Connect.

[upstatemike]

So now I am wondering if I should use Hubitat as my primary Z-Wave controller instead of Z-Net? If Hub Connect allows multiple Hubitat hubs to connect over my LAN then that gives me similar coverage to multiple Z-Nets. Hubitat could be my primary Z-Wave as well as Zigbee gateways. Hubitat can communice with multiple automation systems that have plugins for it so I can have something like an ISY/Polisy system sharing the Zwave and Zigbee inputs with Homeseer.

So what is the downside of running all of my Z-Wave through multiple Hubitats instead of multiple Z-Nets? Do I lose a lot of Homeseer functionality if I go that route?

[Michael McSharry]

I am not a Zwave user, but based upon non-HS users inputs for mcsMQTT it looks as if HS has the best Zwave support which would imply it can do things that other Zwave hubs are not able to do. I have no specific information, but I do agree with your that a dedicated hub that is being upgraded would be a good direction to move. It could be that those trying to use Zwave via HS have already made a HS investment or Hubitat Elevation was not available when they were looking.

[mik3]

So now I am wondering if I should use Hubitat as my primary Z-Wave controller instead of Z-Net? If Hub Connect allows multiple Hubitat hubs to connect over my LAN then that gives me similar coverage to multiple Z-Nets. Hubitat could be my primary Z-Wave as well as Zigbee gateways. Hubitat can communice with multiple automation systems that have plugins for it so I can have something like an ISY/Polisy system sharing the Zwave and Zigbee inputs with Homeseer.

So what is the downside of running all of my Z-Wave through multiple Hubitats instead of multiple Z-Nets? Do I lose a lot of Homeseer functionality if I go that route?

I've come across the very same question, well mostly.

I find there is more device support under Hubitat. There is also the community drivers if the HE team hasn't made any. For this very reason, I have all devices minus Lutron paired to Hubitat.

One specific one that drives me crazy, and I wish HomeSeer would support is the Aeotec Siren 6. This is the only device on my z-wave network that isn't supported.

[simplextech]

I've come across the very same question, well mostly.

I find there is more device support under Hubitat. There is also the community drivers if the HE team hasn't made any. For this very reason, I have all devices minus Lutron paired to Hubitat.

One specific one that drives me crazy, and I wish HomeSeer would support is the Aeotec Siren 6. This is the only device on my z-wave network that isn't supported.

Good luck getting any additional z-wave devices supported by HomeSeer. There's other devices even older one's that HS has just refused to add support for. Example the MIMO2+. You want to know how it got added to Hubitat? I asked Mike from Hubitat to write a driver and include it in Hubitat and then logbuilder sent Mike a loaner device to write the driver. I think the Hubitat driver is minimal though and I'd recommend to have Bryan write a new one

[mik3]

Good luck getting any additional z-wave devices supported by HomeSeer. There's other devices even older one's that HS has just refused to add support for. Example the MIMO2+. You want to know how it got added to Hubitat? I asked Mike from Hubitat to write a driver and include it in Hubitat and then logbuilder sent Mike a loaner device to write the driver. I think the Hubitat driver is minimal though and I'd recommend to have Bryan write a new one

Yeah, you keep reminding me. Both here and on Hubitat. lol!

My honest opinon is this, the event engine is much better on Homeseer then Hubitat's rule machine. Yes you don't have else if options, but if you delete a device it doesn't break the entire event. You just go in and drop in the new device. Under hubitat you have to delete the rule and start all over again. It's also a pain in the *** to update rules.

And my very last complaint, the hub bogs down to sh**, and the more apps I load up the slower stuff gets. Motion Lighting under Hubitat drives me crazy.

I feel every app they have is to hone in on the fact that it's under powered. That's why you have Simple Automation, Motion Lighting, and Rule machine. Each one is faster. They need to get a faster hub, period. I don't care what Bruce and the rest of the guys say. They need something faster.

[upstatemike]

Another strategy would be to have both Hubitat and Z-net and put Z-Wave devices on whichever interface supports them the best. Since evrything gets aggregated in Homeseer I don't see any downside to this apart from keeping track of which devices act as repeaters for which hub so you can plan for good RF coverage.

[simplextech]

Yeah, you keep reminding me. Both here and on Hubitat. lol!

My honest opinon is this, the event engine is much better on Homeseer then Hubitat's rule machine. Yes you don't have else if options, but if you delete a device it doesn't break the entire event. You just go in and drop in the new device. Under hubitat you have to delete the rule and start all over again. It's also a pain in the *** to update rules.

And my very last complaint, the hub bogs down to sh**, and the more apps I load up the slower stuff gets. Motion Lighting under Hubitat drives me crazy.

I feel every app they have is to hone in on the fact that it's under powered. That's why you have Simple Automation, Motion Lighting, and Rule machine. Each one is faster. They need to get a faster hub, period. I don't care what Bruce and the rest of the guys say. They need something faster.

In general HS3 was superior to Hubitat in almost every way. The exception being NO Zigbee. There's no point in Hubitat upgrading hardware as that user base won't pay for it. HE is entry-level and those that outgrow that come to HomeSeer or augment the "hub" with offloading rules to either HS, Node-RED or to Home Assistant.

[mik3]

In general HS3 was superior to Hubitat in almost every way. The exception being NO Zigbee. There's no point in Hubitat upgrading hardware as that user base won't pay for it. HE is entry-level and those that outgrow that come to HomeSeer or augment the "hub" with offloading rules to either HS, Node-RED or to Home Assistant.

Was? Why isn’t it now?

I know a lot of plugin developers are pissed about HS4, but it seems they are slowly coming around to revamp them for HS4.

Time will tell...

[simplextech]

Was? Why isn’t it now?

I know a lot of plugin developers are pissed about HS4, but it seems they are slowly coming around to revamp them for HS4.

Time will tell...

Not many. I'm just going to leave this as what I want to say next will just get my post removed... again.

[Bigstevep]

My honest opinon is this, the event engine is much better on Homeseer then Hubitat's rule machine. Yes you don't have else if options, but if you delete a device it doesn't break the entire event. You just go in and drop in the new device. Under hubitat you have to delete the rule and start all over again. It's also a pain in the *** to update rules.

And my very last complaint, the hub bogs down to sh**, and the more apps I load up the slower stuff gets. Motion Lighting under Hubitat drives me crazy.

I feel every app they have is to hone in on the fact that it's under powered. That's why you have Simple Automation, Motion Lighting, and Rule machine. Each one is faster. They need to get a faster hub, period. I don't care what Bruce and the rest of the guys say. They need something faster.

One thing that most people don't try but I use for complicated events/rules with HT is Webcore and I only use the HT Rule Machine for Zone Motion Control (using multiple motion sensors in a zone as one). Some say that you shouldn't use Webcore as it can be a problem in HT but I have never seen it. The one thing I use Webcore for is sending EventGhost out to shut my PCs down when I leave/arrive, it works well. There are other apps (besides Maker to get devices into HS) like the Geofency Multi-User API Presence App which allows sending the Geofency HTTP post to HT and from there I just import that Presence device via the Maker to HS and drive my HS events that way, it's fast and it works flawlessly (more reliable that HS currently) and no user/password is needed as HT creates a token associated to your HT hub to receive the Geofency HTTP post.

All that being said I don't run a huge amount of apps on the HT hub. If I had a lot of devices and apps I would just add another HT hub to balance the load. I have run multiple HT hubs before to extend my Zigbee network (like ZNet) as most of the Zigbee devices are motion sensors (battery operated) so no repeating and far from the hub but found when I added some Zigbee power outlets (as repeaters) the second hub wasn't needed. I also used their Hub Connect app before and ran a Smartthings hub (mainly for testing) and it worked just fine as well.

Bottom line is I use HT for everything it is better at that HS. With the exception of a few ZWave devices HT handles better than HS (I use HS for all other ZWave) many of the HS plugins (which I own by the way) I used before you can accommodate with just a HT device handler (some need a HT app as well). so now I use HT and uninstalled the HS plugin. HT device handler/app might be missing a feature or two that the HS plugin might have but all the device handling (i.e. status changes) are there and the HS HT plugin (which by the way is a great plugin) pulls them over. If you are seeing HT hub lag just add another HT hub, they aren't that expensive (I've bought them from HT direct for $75) and that should fix the problem (also I reboot my HT hubs once a week and that speeds them up a bit). Using the HT HS plugin you can pull over the HT Maker URL from multiple HT hubs and then the HT devices are transparent in HS.(doesn't know what hub it came from). I just (when I was running multiple HT hubs) put one on one side of the house and one on the other side and identified them that way. If you want the HT hubs talking to each other then use the HT Hub Connect App/device handlers, works well and fast too..

Lots of options

[mik3]

One thing that most people don't try but I use for complicated events/rules with HT is Webcore and I only use the HT Rule Machine for Zone Motion Control (using multiple motion sensors in a zone as one). Some say that you shouldn't use Webcore as it can be a problem in HT but I have never seen it. The one thing I use Webcore for is sending EventGhost out to shut my PCs down when I leave/arrive, it works well. There are other apps (besides Maker to get devices into HS) like the Geofency Multi-User API Presence App which allows sending the Geofency HTTP post to HT and from there I just import that Presence device via the Maker to HS and drive my HS events that way, it's fast and it works flawlessly (more reliable that HS currently) and no user/password is needed as HT creates a token associated to your HT hub to receive the Geofency HTTP post.

All that being said I don't run a huge amount of apps on the HT hub. If I had a lot of devices and apps I would just add another HT hub to balance the load. I have run multiple HT hubs before to extend my Zigbee network (like ZNet) as most of the Zigbee devices are motion sensors (battery operated) so no repeating and far from the hub but found when I added some Zigbee power outlets (as repeaters) the second hub wasn't needed. I also used their Hub Connect app before and ran a Smartthings hub (mainly for testing) and it worked just fine as well.

Bottom line is I use HT for everything it is better at that HS. With the exception of a few ZWave devices HT handles better than HS (I use HS for all other ZWave) many of the HS plugins (which I own by the way) I used before you can accommodate with just a HT device handler (some need a HT app as well). so now I use HT and uninstalled the HS plugin. HT device handler/app might be missing a feature or two that the HS plugin might have but all the device handling (i.e. status changes) are there and the HS HT plugin (which by the way is a great plugin) pulls them over. If you are seeing HT hub lag just add another HT hub, they aren't that expensive (I've bought them from HT direct for $75) and that should fix the problem (also I reboot my HT hubs once a week and that speeds them up a bit). Using the HT HS plugin you can pull over the HT Maker URL from multiple HT hubs and then the HT devices are transparent in HS.(doesn't know what hub it came from). I just (when I was running multiple HT hubs) put one on one side of the house and one on the other side and identified them that way. If you want the HT hubs talking to each other then use the HT Hub Connect App/device handlers, works well and fast too..

Lots of options

Yep, there is options for sure. But as you stated, if one hub slows down, buy another hub. Why? I have Homeseer. I can throw a ton of resources at it under ESXi. No need for multiple hubs.

The slow downs I speak of, are motion lighting. I have around 25 devices between zigbee and z-wave, the rest are Lutron devices. They stay connected and respond fast. Once I start dropping apps on the hub, that's when things start to slow down. (See below)

Zone Control Arregation
Rule Machine
Motion Lighting
Echo Speaks
Hubitat Package Manager
Alexa Skill
Darksky weather
Virtual precense
Ecobee
Maker API
Lutron


Hubitat has some good plugins/apps, but I've managed to get everything working under Homeseer. Yes with some scripting (Alexa TTS), but it works.

Lastly, I've rebuilt Hubitat from ground up three times now, taking into considerations apps over some rules, and better rule writing to maximize the hardware. Yet, I still end up getting slow motion lighting, a choppy web experience, and the need to run reboots every couple days to keep things running smoothly.

Homeseer can deliver motion lighting around 100ms, sometimes less. I can also throw a ton of plugins at it and things continue to run fast. Why, because it's running off a dedicated server/VM. Actual server hardware with ECC ram and a xeon processor etc. This machine runs 24/7 and barely needs a reboot. I go around 8-12 months before rebooting it. Usually it's because I'm updating stuff, moving things around, etc.

I personally believe if Hubitat invested in better hardware, it would greatly improve the experience. I'm sure coding can make a world of a difference, but a lot of the open community may not be that proficient in coding, and the hub as it exists today isn't as forgiving.