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  • Questions about quantity and type of LED

    I revisited this thread at Colin's (SF) suggestion. I am thinking about building out some lighting. I had looked at using a number of different controllers, but none of them integrate with HS.

    While Hyperion is designed as an Ambilight implementation, it appears it can operate as a stand alone LED controller. Is this assumption correct? Is there a better choice for HS control of lighting effects using addressable LED strips?

    It looks like the best choices are APA102, WS2801 and LPD8806 strips, because they have data and clock lines making them far less critical for data timing and easier to control. The APA102 devices look the best, but are also the most expensive. Right now I am leaning toward LPD8806. Is there a better choice?

    Is there a limit, physical or practical, for the Hyperion software or the plug-in to the total number of LEDs that can be controlled per channel? I am thinking of outdoor lighting for holidays which could have a single run of 25-30 meters which could easily total 1000-1800 LEDs. This would be the single longest run. For continuity of effects, it would be nice for these LEDs to be on a single channel.
    Last edited by rprade; February 19th, 2017, 01:05 PM.
    Randy Prade
    Aurora, CO
    Prades.net

    PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

  • #2
    Originally posted by rprade View Post
    I revisited this thread at Colin's (SF) suggestion. I am thinking about building out some lighting. I had looked at using a number of different controllers, but none of them integrate with HS.

    It looks like the best choices are APA102, WS2801 and LPD8806 strips, because they have data and clock lines making them far less critical for data timing and easier to control. The APA102 devices look the best, but are also the most expensive. Right now I am leaning toward LPD8806. Is there a better choice?
    I have always used LPD8806 for my hyperion kits, but I have recently started playing with some WS2812B which are cheaper but don't have a clock line, however I haven't tried yet to integrate them with hyperion.

    Originally posted by rprade View Post
    Is there a limit, physical or practical, for the Hyperion software or the plug-in to the total number of LEDs that can be controlled per channel?
    Not that I know of.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rprade View Post
      I revisited this thread at Colin's (SF) suggestion. I am thinking about building out some lighting. I had looked at using a number of different controllers, but none of them integrate with HS.

      It looks like the best choices are APA102, WS2801 and LPD8806 strips, because they have data and clock lines making them far less critical for data timing and easier to control. The APA102 devices look the best, but are also the most expensive. Right now I am leaning toward LPD8806. Is there a better choice?

      Is there a limit, physical or practical, for the Hyperion software or the plug-in to the total number of LEDs that can be controlled per channel? I am thinking of outdoor lighting for holidays which could have a single run of 25-30 meters which could easily total 1000-1800 LEDs. This would be the single longest run. For continuity of effects, it would be nice for these LEDs to be on a single channel.
      Have you seen this - https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-...loads?view=all

      1000-1800 LED's is going to sink an incredible amount of current and likely need some consideration of volt drop across the cable needing you to supplement the voltage at different points. At peak power (so colour white) for 1800 LED's if that guide is to go by would be somewhere in the region of 540W (100A @ 5V) - that's going to need some careful power thought!!

      Edit: Also look at the YouTube channel mikeselectricstuff, he does commercial installations here in the UK with similar LED's (did one at Harrods) and provides some insight as to how he does it, he seems to favour splitting up the channels and sending data to each run of a couple of meters rather than one data connection to them all.
      My Plugins:

      Pushover 3P | DoorBird 3P | Current Cost 3P | Velleman K8055 3P | LAMetric 3P | Garadget 3P | Hive 3P |
      Yeelight 3P | Nanoleaf 3P

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mrhappy View Post
        Have you seen this - https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-...loads?view=all

        1000-1800 LED's is going to sink an incredible amount of current and likely need some consideration of volt drop across the cable needing you to supplement the voltage at different points. At peak power (so colour white) for 1800 LED's if that guide is to go by would be somewhere in the region of 540W (100A @ 5V) - that's going to need some careful power thought!!

        Edit: Also look at the YouTube channel mikeselectricstuff, he does commercial installations here in the UK with similar LED's (did one at Harrods) and provides some insight as to how he does it, he seems to favour splitting up the channels and sending data to each run of a couple of meters rather than one data connection to them all.
        Thanks. I'll look at that channel.

        I had explored power options when I was looking at using WS2812 strips the "rule of thumb" was 3 amps per meter for 30 LEDs per meter and 6A for 60 LEDs per meter. Using 25 meters as the target I came up with 75A using 30 LEDs per meter. I was going to inject power at the beginning and end of each 5 meter strip using a 100A power supply and let the clock and data run contiguously from the first strip. The actual calculations show that is overstated by about 50%.

        It looks like the LPD8806 is rated at the same 20 milliamperes per pixel, but generally prove to be about 17 milliamperes in practice. Using 20MA as the measure using an RGB pixel, it would be 60MA x 30 pixels per meter and 25 meters of strip for a total of 45A. That should be a worst case of every pixel at 100% white. I doubt I would ever run the strips at 100% white, except for a flash. I think 30 pixels per meter is adequate for the purpose I described, resulting in a total of about 750 pixels. I have several 100A 5V power supplies I planned to use for a lighting project, one should handle even 60 pixels per meter.
        Randy Prade
        Aurora, CO
        Prades.net

        PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by rprade View Post
          Thanks. I'll look at that channel.

          I had explored power options when I was looking at using WS2812 strips the "rule of thumb" was 3 amps per meter for 30 LEDs per meter and 6A for 60 LEDs per meter. Using 25 meters as the target I came up with 75A using 30 LEDs per meter. I was going to inject power at the beginning and end of each 5 meter strip using a 100A power supply and let the clock and data run contiguously from the first strip. The actual calculations show that is overstated by about 50%.

          It looks like the LPD8806 is rated at the same 20 milliamperes per pixel, but generally prove to be about 17 milliamperes in practice. Using 20MA as the measure using an RGB pixel, it would be 60MA x 30 pixels per meter and 25 meters of strip for a total of 45A. That should be a worst case of every pixel at 100% white. I doubt I would ever run the strips at 100% white, except for a flash. I think 30 pixels per meter is adequate for the purpose I described, resulting in a total of about 750 pixels. I have several 100A 5V power supplies I planned to use for a lighting project, one should handle even 60 pixels per meter.
          I'm not sure the cable size for 50A @ 5V but it won't be trivial, I'd be amazed if you could even solder the cable to the strips as it would be a fair diameter to have that current. IMHO you would have to do staged power injection every 5/10 metres or something just to prevent the voltage drop getting to the point the LED's don't work. I've seen quite a few youtube videos of large projects like this and I'm sure that they adopt a similar approach...
          My Plugins:

          Pushover 3P | DoorBird 3P | Current Cost 3P | Velleman K8055 3P | LAMetric 3P | Garadget 3P | Hive 3P |
          Yeelight 3P | Nanoleaf 3P

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mrhappy View Post
            I'm not sure the cable size for 50A @ 5V but it won't be trivial, I'd be amazed if you could even solder the cable to the strips as it would be a fair diameter to have that current. IMHO you would have to do staged power injection every 5/10 metres or something just to prevent the voltage drop getting to the point the LED's don't work. I've seen quite a few youtube videos of large projects like this and I'm sure that they adopt a similar approach...
            Like I said in my post above, I was going to supply power at the beginning, end and each junction of 5 meter strips. In essence that would be about 6-8A at each junction. I was planning on using 16AWG wiring from the power supply to each junction. I would probably connect to the strips with a short 20AWG pigtail from the 16AWG supply line. When it comes to the actual installation, I will likely use several smaller (10-20A) power supplies in the attic and garage to reduce the length of the 5V lines.

            Those are all hurdles to cross as I go forward. I just wanted to make sure there was no hard pixel limit in the plug-in or the Hyperion software. I am aware that a practical limit of about 2000 pixels per channel exists, regardless of the controller. No matter what configuration I settle on, I will be well below that limit.
            Randy Prade
            Aurora, CO
            Prades.net

            PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

            Comment


            • #7
              Just to ask what you think in the use of Hyperion with a 144 LEDs 4 meters ledstrip apa102? That could work and really could be worth it for Hyperion ? The total of 576 LEDs scenario could be 576_.026=14.98 and worst scenario like the webpage 576_.06=34.56 there are power supplies support including more like 300w for example. But with that amazing quantity of LEDs not distort or make loss the ambiance of Hyperion or the opposite makes look amazing better? I just ask to know what is the best and worst sceneario with Hyperion having amazing quantities of LEDs.

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