Upgrade Insteon Plugin

[bburns]

I have been a long time user of the insteon plugin. I am currently using "HYBRID PLM VERSION 1.1.52.1 In PLM Mode" which is very old I use HS2, 2.5.0.81. I have a few questions:

1. I tried to upgrade to version 1.8.2.10. Copied over HSPI_Insteon.dll file. But after restart I get " HYBRID PLM VERSION 1.1.52.1 In PLM Mode". Do I need to get a new license? I can revert the dll back and everything works ok.

2. I noticed that there were even newer versions of the plugin, but I was not sure if they were for HS3 only.

3. I have a new Insteon Hub (2245-222). Can I quit using my old PLM and make Homeseer work thru the Insteon Hub instead? I have 63 devices so I don't want to have to set them all up again in Homeseer.

4. What is the latest version of Insteon Plugin that will work with HS2?

Thanks,
B2

[mnsandler]

1. Any insteon plugin v1.5 or later required an HS2 plugin licenses. But HST is not selling them anymore.

2. The last published HS2 plugin version was v2.0.0.x (over 3 years ago). Plugin versions 3.x are for HS3.

3. You will need to upgrade to HS3 at this point to use the Hub. You will be able to migration your insteon network to the hub via the HS3 plugin after you get HS3 running. You can use your existing insteon.ini with HS3, so you don't have to register the devices again. But you will need to rebuild event triggers and actions.

4. see answer #2 above

[bburns]

Mark,

Thanks for your quick reply. A couple more questions:
1. If I upgrade to HS3, do I need to repurchase plugin license as well? Trying to figure out the full costs

2. Are there any advantages/disadvantages to using old USB PLM vs. Insteon Hub 2245-222 with HS3 and Insteon Plugin SW?

3. I did not see an obvious way in HS3 to configure the Insteon plugin, suchas select which device it was using to communicate to Insteon Network.

[mnsandler]

1. Yes, you will need to purchase my hs3 insteon plugin license.

Note: there is a free homeseer insteon plugin by HST but it doesn't support the hub, and isn't being enhanced any more. I don't suggest messing with it. Your insteon setup will not transfer either way.

2. the two controllers are basically identical in functionality. its really a decision about locating the controller relative to the hs server. I recommend plugging the controller into an outlet close to the service panel to improve the signal comm. The hub gives you the flexibility locate it away from the hs server, where as the usb plm needs to be close.

3. you need to enter the Port on the plugin config page: either COMx, or ip address : port (eg. 192.168.1.2:25105). clock save, Then for the hub, you will be prompted for a username/pswd (which is on the bottom of the unit)

[bburns]

Unexpected Behavior

So I upgraded to a trial version of HS3 and the Insteon plugin version 3.0.60. I connected the Insteon Plugin to my new Insteon Hub 2245-222. Here is some of the strangeness I noticed:
1. After connecting Hub to HS3, I could no longer connect devices to Hub using the Mobile App. If I shutdown HS3, I can then add the devices via the mobile App. Not a big deal, but it took me awhile to figure out what the problem was.

2. When switching from PLM to Hub, all devices need to be reprogrammed to add links for Homeseer Hub connections. I think there is a button to reprogram all devices with new controller interface. I wasn't quite ready to do that yet, mainly due to issue 1.

3. I switched controller interface back to PLM. I noticed that all the devices were whining about the being connected to an unregistered device, the Insteon Hub. So I added the insteon HUB as a device in HS3. They are all still complaining about it being unregistered.

4. One of the new devices I added, says it does not have links with Homeseer. I did the "Program Device for Homeseer" several times and it still gives a warning. Note 3B.62.5A is Insteon Hub

Device Link Table

Link #5	Load controls B2 Office USB PLM (23.99.FB)
Link #2	Load controls Unregistered Device (3B.62.5A)
Link #4	Load is controlled by B2 Office USB PLM (23.99.FB) - On Level : Off
Link #3	Load is controlled by B2 Office USB PLM (23.99.FB) - On Level : On
Link #6	Load is controlled by B2 Office USB PLM (23.99.FB) - On Level : On
Link #1	Load is controlled by Unregistered Device Group 0 (3B.62.5A) - On Level : Off

Warning: This Insteon device controls or is controlled by devices you have not yet registered with the plug-in. HomeSeer may not be aware of any control commands that might come from the unregistered device. Please add the unknown device to your system if possible.

Warning: This Insteon device has no links with the HomeSeer interface, so it can not respond to the ALL DEVICES group commands sent by HomeSeer. Please use the 'Program Device for Homeseer' function.

Warning: This Insteon device has no master links with the HomeSeer interface, so it can not report local control changes to HomeSeer. Please use the 'Program Device for Homeseer' function.

Edit Links

[mnsandler]

please get things working with the plm first since everything was registered with it first. Ignore the unregistered links with the hub, they won't break anything.

once you have everything working with the plm you can 'swap' to the hub. There is a swap routine on the config page.

[bburns]

I'm more concerned with issue 1. I'm not sure I will switch to using the Hub as the controller, since using the Hub precludes me from adding devices via the mobile Insteon Hub app. That was the primary reason I got the Hub was so that I could control insteon switched via the phone or Alexa. I guess I could remember to shut down HS3 whenever I wanted to add something to the Insteon Hub app.

[mnsandler]

I'm more concerned with issue 1. I'm not sure I will switch to using the Hub as the controller, since using the Hub precludes me from adding devices via the mobile Insteon Hub app. That was the primary reason I got the Hub was so that I could control insteon switched via the phone or Alexa. I guess I could remember to shut down HS3 whenever I wanted to add something to the Insteon Hub app.

I can't tell you why its not working, but it should. others use the hub with the insteon app and homeseer. the hub is a network device; neither software has exclusive control over it.

anything you register with the insteon app is not transferred to homeseer. you will need to register devices in both apps if you want to control them with both. side note: homeseer integrates directly with alexa with the hub. hstouch allows phone control.

[bburns]

I have attached two file that show the same switch's device management page one from HS2 and the other by HS3. In HS3 output I was concerned by:

Warning: This Insteon device has no links with the HomeSeer interface, so it can not respond to the ALL DEVICES group commands sent by HomeSeer. Please use the 'Program Device for Homeseer' function.
Warning: This Insteon device has no master links with the HomeSeer interface, so it can not report local control changes to HomeSeer. Please use the 'Program Device for Homeseer' function.

I think the problem was introduced when I was using the Insteon Hub and I then added the old PLM address as a device to remove the warning about an unregistered device. Now that I switched HS3 back to using PLM it doesn't know how to translate "B2 Office USB PLM" back to "Homeseer". I guess I could remove the "B2 Office USB PLM" as a device, but I'm worried that may now break something else. I would like to get back to a state with no Warning messages

[mnsandler]

now delete the links that reference the hub address.

yes, remove the usb plm device as well. its not necessary

when you are ready to switch to the hub, use the Program Replacement/Swapped interface. there are instructions in the consolidated doc thread on this.

[bburns]

Is Insteon/Homeseer Worth It?

First I want to say thanks Mark!! Your steps for upgrading to HS3 were spot on. However, this little exercise reminded me of the actually poor quality of the Insteon devices. Now I have been using Insteon for about 10 years and have over 70 Insteon devices installed in my home. My biggest complaint is that the switches degrade over time and eventually fail out right. They of course usually last their 2 year warranty period. I have found that they become almost unusable in the 3-4 year time period. So at roughly $70/device, my initial investment was ~$5000. After 4-5 year of ownership I have replaced about 1/2 of my devices, so another $2500. Since then, I have been replacing several devices a year and sometimes I having to replace the newer devices, especially the Keypad Linc Dimmers, they seem to have the worse longevity and they are the most expensive.

Long story short if you look at my attached device list. I now have 32 of my 70 devices with unacceptable communications. I consider unacceptable to be less than 75%, which is extremely gracious. I really think one should expect the comm reliability to be 100%. There is nothing more annoying then having to press a light switch multiple times in order to get the lights to come on!! You start wondering if the bulbs are burnt out or something else. Well with Insteon it is usually a failing switch So I am looking at another $2500 to keep Insteon up and working plus another $320 for upgrading to HS3, so that I can manage these new devices. This is becoming quite the premium for home automation.

The first time I did a big replacement, it involved upgrading to new version of Hardware so I was at least hopefully that the new HW would last longer. Unfortunately that is not the case. I still have some old switches that are working, while I have some relatively new switches that are failing.

So if you are considering a large Insteon installation. I would say 10 or more switches, then I would look else where, because your recurring cost are going to be huge with Insteon.

I have come to the conclusion that I will not continue sinking money and time into the Insteon money pit. Sorry Mark, it is not your fault. The SW is great...HS is a little antiquated though. Yes I add time as a major negative for Insteon. I can not even estimate the number of hours I have spent installing, re-installing, debugging, configuring, etc of the Insteon devices.

[mnsandler]

I hear your frustration. You do have a lot of i1 devices which are very old and definitely less reliable than the newer dual band devices. it would be interesting to see your replacement stats by i1 vs i2 vs i2cs.

I also think the quality of one's electrical system has a lot to do with reliability and longevity of these devices.

I think the general conclusion is, "your mileage may vary". Every installation is unique.

good luck with your future HA projects.

[bburns]

Is Insteon/Homeseer Worth It?

If you are referring to power grid quality, I believe my power is on the relatively good side of the national average. I have done measurements periodically over the years of my power: voltage consistency, current spikes, noise analysis, etc. I am an Electrical Engineer, but not a power engineer As far as the house wiring is concerned: the house is relatively new (15 years) and I inspected all the wiring personally during the build and I'm pretty particular, so I would say it is definitely above average.

My expectations maybe high, but I would think the average consumer would not expect to replace a light switch every 3 to 5 years. Especially if that consumer required a 3rd party for installation. The cost of the switches is non-trivial: ~$70.

As far as i1 vs i2 vs i2CS goes, my highest failure item is the Keypad Linc Dimmer and I have had several of the i2CS versions fail. Note that there are still some i1's on the same circuit as the i2CS Keypads that are still operational, so this is a pretty clear indicator that environment is not a factor. If the i2CS devices actually lasted longer, then I might consider replacing my switches, but my experience says that the longevity has not really improved

On most of my Keypad switches I removed the load from them in hopes that they would last longer. That does not seem to improve their longevity I would have replaced the Keypad switches for normal dimmers in most locations except that I have several Fanlincs which virtually require a corresponding Keypad.

I think Insteon should consider a replacement program at a minimum, offer a significant discount for replacing a failed device. I have written to the company several times about this, but they never seem to respond, which is another indicator that customer service is not their priority.

I have been considering Leviton Z-wave. They are a little more expensive, but the company has a long history of producing quality switches. Or possibly Lutrons Caseta (but that looks entirely proprietary). Just starting to investigate alternatives, but there seems to be quite a few to choose from now.

[Burrington]

BBurns,

I'm not sure your experience with Insteon hardware failures is typical. I have 121 Insteon devices in my home, and another 32 devices in my RV. I've been at it for years, so have the whole range of vintages. I have had only 3 hardware failures in all that time: One lamplinc that failed with a bad SCR that I replaced and put back in service; one leak sensor that drown in water after reporting a flood to me; and one V1 Serial PLM that went flakey and is a known problem.

If you are having that many device hardware failures, possibly you are getting power surges or power spikes dues to industrial activity or lightning activity on your grid. Power spikes sometimes zap a device instantly, but more often just degrade the components so that they fail over a short period of time. So it can be very misleading because you can't connect a lightning storm with the device failure. If you are getting power spikes, changing to another technology will not help, they will be zapped in the same manner. Installing a whole house surge suppressor will resolve that problem and improve the longevity of all your electronics in the house.

Your communication reliability issues are solvable. There are several other threads on this forum that show how to find the "signal killers" that prevent Insteon signals from getting through. Here is one that will help you resolve your communication problems: https://forums.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=176931 Using the info in that thread, I now have a very reliable system. My worst device is still 93% reliability, and 89 of my 121 devices are 99% or better. Takes a bit of time, but filterlincs are the key...