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2413U died - How do you replace it?

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    #16
    Mostly Dead

    Mark, Thanks for asking.

    You asked, is the 2413U completely dead? No, but with apologies to Princess Bride, "It's mostly dead"

    It is recognized on USB COM6 and makes the disconnect/connect sounds in Windows, but the plugin can't see it. I've reset it a half dozen times including a 48 hour unplug just in case there was a capacitor or something that was causing problems. Tried different outlets, too. At this point I'm waiting for the replacement.

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      #17
      Originally posted by dzee View Post
      Mark, Thanks for asking.

      You asked, is the 2413U completely dead? No, but with apologies to Princess Bride, "It's mostly dead"

      It is recognized on USB COM6 and makes the disconnect/connect sounds in Windows, but the plugin can't see it. I've reset it a half dozen times including a 48 hour unplug just in case there was a capacitor or something that was causing problems. Tried different outlets, too. At this point I'm waiting for the replacement.
      thanks for reporting back. Others have found out which capacitor has gone bad and replaced it and saved the plm as a backup. if you are so included, you should be able to find that thread here.
      Mark

      HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
      Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
      Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
      Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

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        #18
        Swap Went Well

        Mark, Just wanted to report back that I received the replacement 2413U today (version 2.x) and ran through the swap routine you suggested. Everything worked great that I can tell, but I skipped some remote open/close sensors and motion detectors where I need to get a ladder. Also found a few lamp modules that were having difficulty with signal, so I moved those closer to the action and got them on a second pass.

        Pretty much 98% back up and running right now. I'll probably wait until the weekend to rescan and get the rest of the devices where I have to hit a program button.

        Thank you for your guidance.

        You mentioned that some have fixed their old 2413, so I've looked a few pages that recommend some parts that are usually the problem. I'm handy with a soldering iron, so it might be worth seeing if I can get the old one working.

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          #19
          Question about Motion, Open/Close Sensors

          I haven't yet run the swap device on the motion sensors or the open/close sensors, yet they seem to be communicating with the new PLM. Is it necessary to reprogram those? What happens if you don't?

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            #20
            typically RF devices need to have the plm id in their link database so the devices know who to broadcast their messages to. Since the new plm has the ms device id in its link database, it must be accepting the msgs regardless. I guess if it is working as-is, the only downside is the plugin will display 'unregistered device' anywhere it sees the old plm id in a link.
            Mark

            HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
            Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
            Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
            Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by mnsandler View Post
              typically RF devices need to have the plm id in their link database so the devices know who to broadcast their messages to. Since the new plm has the ms device id in its link database, it must be accepting the msgs regardless. I guess if it is working as-is, the only downside is the plugin will display 'unregistered device' anywhere it sees the old plm id in a link.

              Is it possible (maybe likely is the better term) that this will cause decreased battery life? Will the devices repeat transmissions for a while since the correct (in their opinion) PLM is not acknowledging them? Or, is that not how it works?

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                #22
                Originally posted by joegr View Post
                Is it possible (maybe likely is the better term) that this will cause decreased battery life? Will the devices repeat transmissions for a while since the correct (in their opinion) PLM is not acknowledging them? Or, is that not how it works?
                this is true, theoretically, the plm should ACK the RF device msg so the RF device doesn't continue to retransmit.

                for example, if you see an RF device flashing fast after it transmits its initial msg, this usually indicates the rf device didn't receive an ACK.
                Mark

                HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
                Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
                Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
                Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

                Comment


                  #23
                  Repair of 2413U succeeded

                  After buying a new 2413U and successfully swapping it in per Mark's directions, I repaired the old 2413UH Rev 1.7 that died using these instructions:
                  https://1projectaweek.com/blog/2017/...odem-plm-2413u

                  The caps cost about $3 from Mouser + twice that in shipping. A few tips if you attempt this yourself:
                  1. USB is just a daughter card that lifts straight up with the plate around the USB port after two screws are removed.
                  2. Don't even think about doing this without a Panavise or other third hand to hold the board while you work.
                  3. Make sure you have a fine (really fine) tip soldering iron. Solder pads are small and close. You will need some desoldering braid or tools.
                  4. Pay close attention to polarity of the caps. The pictures clearly show the negative stripe and the board shows the + lead location, but still it's something you'll want to double check before soldering down.
                  5. The biggest cap (C3) is huge compared with the original. You may want to gently push the surrounding caps a bit out of the way so you can make sure to get this one seated all the way down so the cover can be put back on.
                  6. Consider removing C7, then C8, then replacing C8, then C7 last. I put C8 in last, and it's tiny and hard to hold with the bigger C7, C13 in the way.
                  7. Carefully note where each type of screw goes. I removed 8 screws + 2 standoffs to remove the board. 4 in case, two in USB daughter card, two hex standoffs, two holding board down near power plug, and two holding power wires. Each set is a different screw type, so note where each comes from.
                  8. Be sure to tip the board out to protect the reset button and LED by lifting the transformer side (opposite) first.
                  9. There are some surface mount components on the backside of the board, including what I think is a diode very close to the C13 solder pads. I checked it after putting the new C13 in place and found a short. Turns out there actually SHOULD be a short there (I tested a working 2412N I had with a similar board and it had the same continuity).
                  10. When testing initial power application, I plugged the repaired PLM into an extension cord, then plugged that in just in case something sparked or a cap popped so I was farther away.
                  11. When testing computer interface, I used a USB hub between my machine and the 2413U. In case one of those caps is isolating AC from USB or there was a short I missed, I didn't want to blow out the USB ports on my computer.


                  Some other discoveries I made along the way:
                  • My unit was actually a 2413UH Rev 1.7, so if you're wondering, yes this fix works on the UH as well.
                  • I had a working 2412N (Ethernet) Rev 2.85, and despite the components being even smaller than the original caps on the 2413U I was repairing, the board layout looked identical. The differences between the 2413U(USB), S(Serial), and N(Network) appear to be solely on the daughter card supporting the interface. If this happens again, I might save $10 buying a 2413S and just swapping the USB daughter card from the old one since the problem appears to be on the main board. I doubt the Insteon ID is on the daughter card. Your mileage may vary, however, so no guarantees that'll work.
                  Last edited by dzee; October 8, 2017, 02:56 PM.

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                    #24
                    Thanks for the details. i'm going to link to this post from my documentation to make it easy for others to find it later.
                    Mark

                    HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
                    Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
                    Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
                    Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

                    Comment

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