HS4 with the mnsandler Insteon plugin...

[Isk82]

I am always on the end of the version cycle when I upgrade. I used 1.6 long after the HS2 upgrade deals were expired. Then I upgraded to HS2 just as version 3 was being introduced and I only upgraded to version 3 in July. Naturally I had to pay full price for the new plugin, but I got HS3 for Pi for free and built my own pi box, so it's still a good deal. I'm not a developer, but I can understand the plugins needing to be rewritten when they went to .net, but this new version .... and again I'm not a developer, but this new HS 4 version just feels like a few new features from what I read. If there's an upgrade path to this Insteon plugin AND I determine HS4 offers some benefit, I'll upgrade. Otherwise I'll probably use HS3 until 2 weeks before HS5 is introduced, and suck it up then.

[Krumpy]

Two points:

1.) I also have too much money incorporated within my HS system to continue to upgrade paid plugins. There would have to be significant features to upgrade. I personally will remove Insteon wherever hardware failures occur. Smart labs does not support their products well. To be honest, the only reason I still have Insteon in this house is because of your efforts.

2.) i would recommend to you to make a stand-alone exe with all of your Insteon logic and then have the various HS3 or hs4 plugins talk to your code. That way you’re abstracting your code from the HS plugins. It would be easier for you to maintain support, and you actually could incorporate Insteon into other automation platforms. You say that you don’t want to do that, but there really is a market for this.

[mnsandler]

2.) i would recommend to you to make a stand-alone exe with all of your Insteon logic and then have the various HS3 or hs4 plugins talk to your code. That way you’re abstracting your code from the HS plugins. It would be easier for you to maintain support, and you actually could incorporate Insteon into other automation platforms. You say that you don’t want to do that, but there really is a market for this.

I have already done this within HS 2/3. the insteon.dll is all my generic insteon code, and the plugin file is the hs2 or hs3 specific code. I created my own an HSPI .net Interface. it will be interesting to see how I have to extend it to support HS4.

[RoChess]

I created my own an HSPI .net Interface. it will be interesting to see how I have to extend it to support HS4.

Probably no changes required to your interface, as it seems the majority of the HS4 upgrade is focused around this new GUI, which will kick in some sort of "show it in HS3 GUI" mode if the plugin does not indicate it supports HS4. Amazed you aren't part of the group of developers that has early access, or did you prefer to wait?

[mnsandler]

Probably no changes required to your interface, as it seems the majority of the HS4 upgrade is focused around this new GUI, which will kick in some sort of "show it in HS3 GUI" mode if the plugin does not indicate it supports HS4. Amazed you aren't part of the group of developers that has early access, or did you prefer to wait?

I do have access to the hs4 alpha and developer group. Just sitting back and letting others figure out some of the issues first.

UI is my least favorite part of the plugin development process; i would like to see what others come up with before i jump in.

[RoChess]

i would like to see what others come up with before i jump in.

Have a feeling many HS3 end-users will do the same, because I've bought the HS4 upgrade already, but I'll probably remain focused on HS3 until the initial bugs are ironed out.

At least for my primary system, firing up a secondary one to mess around with HS4 remains optional

[mgonzales100]

All,
I have every plan to support HS4. I guess my question for this forum is, why would you upgrade my plugin to an HS4 version, if you could continue to use the HS3 plugin version?

Obviously at some point i will stop evolving the HS3 version (including adding new insteon device support)

That said, if you had to upgrade to HS4 to get the latest insteon device support (via an HS4 plugin), how would you feel about that?

I think it's reasonable expectations for you to devote your energy into HS4. I have no issue paying an upgrade fee for the latest and greatest version of your plugin.

[ctome3]

Mark, I just wanted to say "thank you" for easily the most useful and valuable plug-in that I personally use. I totally understand the revenue issue: I had actually wondered about that for some time for all the plug-in developers. They all appear to be one-time purchases, but you guys continue to develop and support it. My first version of HS is HS3, so I haven't been through an upgrade yet and see how this was handled. I think the last thing any of us want is for you to get to the point where you don't think it's worth it to you to continue to maintain and support it.

Had you told me I would need to eventually buy the new HS4 version at full price, I definitely would do it. A limited-time discount from the HS3 to HS4 version would clearly be welcome, and definitely more than fair in my opinion. But I definitely get that maintenance and support isn't free, so at some point there needs to be a revenue stream besides net-new customers, or ultimately the best case will be software that is delivered as-is with no new features or new device support.

While it would definitely be ideal if the HS3 version can be supported for a period of time, I think it's completely reasonable to not backport new features to the old version. I also think it's reasonable to sunset the old version at some point. It's simply not sustainable to maintain multiple versions indefinitely; at some point people need to get on the latest version, and a great incentive is the ability to enable new features and support new device types.

[mgonzales100]

its not clear what the migration from HS3 to HS4 will look like. I will certainly offer a discount for existing hs3 users to upgrade to HS4 (as long as HST supports that). HST eventually dropped the discount option from HS2 to HS3 so i couldn't offer a discount indefinitely. I suspect the same will happen again.

stay tuned

That's fair. I'll buy the plugin in hopes that the upgrade will be reasonably priced. Especially for those of use who are buying the plugin during this transition period between HS3 and HS4.

[RoChess]

One solution is to raise price of plugin to say +$10, and whomever buys it now gets free HS4 upgrade, then once HS4 is released existing HS3 owners can upgrade for say $20, and then plugin returns back to normal price.

Seeing as HomeSeer isn't offering plugin developers an easy options, but as a developer you don't want your sales to come to a halt either with everyone waiting on HS4.

Spud is doing HS3-now-HS4-free-later in line with how HomeSeer themselves are doing; some who've bought plugin before are mad, especially those who have bought it recently, but that's basic economics. Don't want HomeSeer to go bankrupt with everyone waiting to buy until HS4 is released, and don't want to see plugin developers go unpaid either.

[ttantalol]

Just stay with 3 until the bugs are worked out. Then see if 4 is going to work out. There will be a lot of work involved so don't just jump into it because I think most of us will regret it.

[codemonkey]

I have already done this within HS 2/3. the insteon.dll is all my generic insteon code, and the plugin file is the hs2 or hs3 specific code. I created my own an HSPI .net Interface. it will be interesting to see how I have to extend it to support HS4.

Mark I'm using your HS3 plugin on HS4 and so far it's been flawless. If anything, and this could just be placebo, the i/o seems snappier. I was having a real issue with insteon motions but since your last version on my HS4 rig, they are much more reliable. Still not as good as I've had in the past, but they've gone from walk in a room and the light turns on a few minutes after you leave if at all and then maybe turns off to I walk in a room and within 2 or 3 seconds the light will almost always turn on. Just to be clear, this motion issue started and was much worse when I was running HS3. While I'm not saying HS4 fixed the issue, (i think it was your last update) I have not seen any negatives to running it so far.

Tony

[mnsandler]

Mark I'm using your HS3 plugin on HS4 and so far it's been flawless. If anything, and this could just be placebo, the i/o seems snappier. I was having a real issue with insteon motions but since your last version on my HS4 rig, they are much more reliable. Still not as good as I've had in the past, but they've gone from walk in a room and the light turns on a few minutes after you leave if at all and then maybe turns off to I walk in a room and within 2 or 3 seconds the light will almost always turn on. Just to be clear, this motion issue started and was much worse when I was running HS3. While I'm not saying HS4 fixed the issue, (i think it was your last update) I have not seen any negatives to running it so far.

Tony

Thanks for the info & feedback

[pgovotsos]

One problem with the current HS plugin licensing model is that its a one time purchase. I can't support HS3 indefinitely (adding features, and new insteon devices). I would be willing to support HS3 much longer if users needed new device support and were willing to upgrade to say a HS3 3.1.x.x plugin. whereas the current HS3 plugin is 3.0.x.x.

I'm working with HST on this whole licensing issue. This is has been an ongoing issue for me.

I'd be perfectly happy to buy an upgrade to 3.1.x to continue to get updates for the HS3 version. I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade to HS4 for MY needs.

I've gotten a lot of use from the one time purchase of 3.0.x. You've done a great deal of work on it since I first bought it. Personally I don't feel that it is fair to expect a developer to keep adding features and devices for years for the measly amount that Mark charges for the plugin.

To be honest, I'd be willing to pay the full price for a 3.1.x version to continue support for HS3 instead of a discounted upgrade price. I've gotten years and years of use out of the initial $60 - just a few dollars per year. What's another $60 for a few more years?

Just my opinion. This is the only 3rd party plugin that I use so my situation is obviously very different from those who use many.

[codemonkey]

I'd be perfectly happy to buy an upgrade to 3.1.x to continue to get updates for the HS3 version. I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade to HS4 for MY needs.

I've gotten a lot of use from the one time purchase of 3.0.x. You've done a great deal of work on it since I first bought it. Personally I don't feel that it is fair to expect a developer to keep adding features and devices for years for the measly amount that Mark charges for the plugin.

To be honest, I'd be willing to pay the full price for a 3.1.x version to continue support for HS3 instead of a discounted upgrade price. I've gotten years and years of use out of the initial $60 - just a few dollars per year. What's another $60 for a few more years?

Just my opinion. This is the only 3rd party plugin that I use so my situation is obviously very different from those who use many.

I completely agree. Marks time is worth something, and he's been attentive and active in this community for years. I'd rather pay for an upgrade and know he'll stick around to support it than leach free support for years from him and have him loose interest.