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  • X10 to Insteon upgrade

    Finally bit the bullet and bought a pile of Insteon modules and wall switches to upgrade after 30+ years of X10. I bought three 2466D Rev 5.0+ ToggleLink Dimmer wall units a few years ago and set them to X10 mode as I was not ready for Insteon. Today I removed the X10 addresses and Tap Added the ToggleLinks to the Insteon Plugin and to HomeSeer. I also had one Dimmer Module already in service.

    Two of the three ToggleLinks added and linked just fine, but one is a problem, "Garage Doors 4 Lamps INST". Oddly it is in a 3 gang wall box right next to "Backyard Garden 4 Floods INST" which works perfectly, yet it barely communicates to the Insteon USB modem and HS3. I cannot get the links uploaded, yet it works, it does ON/OFF/DIM but I cannot program the ToggleLink or Program for HomeSeer. My first thought, it is defective in Insteon mode. I wonder is it worth Factory Reset device or Replace This Device to fix problem? I still have X10 devices active and probably will for years so I still have a active phase repeater unit plugged in the dryer socket, is that an issue? I have only one Dual-Band Dimmer module plugged in so far but it is far away from the ToggleLinks. I will plug in 10 Dual-Band Dimmer modules when I'm done upgrading.

    Why is Msg Quality "Excellent" when Comm Reliability is only 30%?

    Are these 2466D ToggleLinks Dual-Band or not, hard to tell based on printed info?

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Insteon 1.JPG Views:	36 Size:	28.5 KB ID:	1339074

  • #2
    Welcome to the forum.

    (1) please try the factory reset and then use the 'program device for homeseer' from the plugin. don't bother with the replace; that's only need if you have an working registered device that has gone bad.
    (2) if that doesn't work, pull the set button on the other devices in the 3 gang box, and retry.

    x10 doesn't bother insteon, but a lot of insteon traffic will bother x10. you will notice x10 performance degrade as you add insteon devices. the dryer module is fine.

    comm reliability and msg quality are different metrics. Msg quality is only based on the Hops data

    the 2466D doesn't look like dual-band.
    Mark

    HS3 Pro 3.0.0.435
    Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
    Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
    Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

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    • #3
      I will try what you suggest and report back.

      BTW, the not working ToggleLink is actually not working. I said it would ON/OFF/DIM but that was what HS3 reported, actually the module is not responding to HS3 commands, which makes more sense. Why does HS3 report incorrect module action status? I thought one major upgrade from X10 is that Insteon supports command acks and does retries based on success.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by allenc3 View Post
        I will try what you suggest and report back.

        BTW, the not working ToggleLink is actually not working. I said it would ON/OFF/DIM but that was what HS3 reported, actually the module is not responding to HS3 commands, which makes more sense. Why does HS3 report incorrect module action status? I thought one major upgrade from X10 is that Insteon supports command acks and does retries based on success.
        if you enable detailed logging on the plugin config page, you can see in the hs log all of the transmits, retries, and responses. Please capture the detailed log of the registration process, or the reprogramming process, and post it here.

        the plugin will report status of Unknown if it doesn't get a response from the device
        Mark

        HS3 Pro 3.0.0.435
        Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
        Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
        Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

        Comment


        • #5
          Allenc3: If you liked X10, you're going to LOVE Insteon! Here are some things I learned while making the transition:

          The powerline signal of Insteon is exactly the same as X10 electrically, but Insteon adds a lot more protocol and intelligence so it works both directions with error checking, re-transmission, message forwarding, etc. So all of your X10 experience for powerline filters, signal loading, etc translates directly to Insteon. Your X10 phase repeater still helps Insteon just like it did for X10. Likewise X10 filters work perfectly for Insteon.

          Dual-band devices add another path (via RF) for Insteon to get its signals through. A dual-band device will actually pick up a powerline message and retransmit it via RF back to the PLM (called "hopping"). Therefore, adding some dual-band devices onto the same circuit as non-dual-band devices can improve communication reliability of the non-dual-band devices. But, always use dual-band devices if you have a choice.

          As Mark said, Insteon devices can degrade the performance of your X10 devices due to conflicting protocols and messages. X10 doesn't really know if its message got through or not, so if it gets stepped on by an Insteon message, its lost. Also, Insteon devices are a low impedance to the powerline (necessary to transmit) whereas X10 devices are high impedance. What that means is that Insteon devices load the powerline signal more than X10 devices. So if an X10 device was already getting a weak signal, it may drop to the point the X10 device can't see it any more. So, in my experience its a good idea to replace all the X10 devices on one circuit to Insteon at the same time. IE, don't change 2 devices to Insteon and leave an X10 module on the same line, change all 3 at once.

          If you find you're having trouble with X10 devices that used to work fine, try to upgrade the signal quality using X10 filters, or Insteon FilterLincs, particularly on the computer, UPS, printer, TV's, audio equipment. There are lots of helpful suggestions on this board if you need help for that.

          Bottom line: you're going to love Insteon and once you get past a few hurdles, you'll be very happy you made the leap!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Burrington View Post
            Allenc3: If you liked X10, you're going to LOVE Insteon! Here are some things I learned while making the transition:...
            Great info, thanks! Interesting info about the low/high impedance, and Insteon possibly degrading X10 performance. I do have high quality X10 filters on every cluster of computer gear and A/V gear, and I have many DuaI-Band Dimmers yet to be installed. I sort of suspect a defective ToggleLink but will know more after I do what Mark suggested.

            Comment


            • #7
              Factory Reset of the "Garage Doors 4 Lamps - INST" ToggleLink fixed the communication problem, so thanks for that advice.

              Click image for larger version

Name:	Insteon 2.JPG
Views:	61
Size:	33.3 KB
ID:	1339634

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              • #8
                Glad you got it working. Thanks for reporting back.
                Mark

                HS3 Pro 3.0.0.435
                Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
                Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
                Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

                Comment

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