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Device not responding to group cmd via event when triggered by motion sensor

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    Device not responding to group cmd via event when triggered by motion sensor

    Hi,

    I have a 2-wire Insteon dimmer and an older i2CS fw41 Insteon motion sensor. HS sees the motion sensor go On every time and appears to send the group command, but the device never goes on when triggered by the motion sensor's event. I mean, never. I've had communication issues before, but this is odd. The dimmer responds to the group command whenever issued manually via device control or running the event manually. Just not when the motion sensor triggers the event.

    I enabled Detailed logging and observed some debouncing repeats and retries right around when the light should be turning on. It appears the group command eventually goes through, but the light never turns on.

    Could this motion sensor be causing interference of some sort for my 2-wire, RF only dimmer by seemingly sending messages repeatedly?

    Any other ideas?


    Oct-12 9:03:32 PM Insteon ..Got RF PLM Response 02 62 00 00 44 CF 11 00 06
    Oct-12 9:03:32 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 11 00 01 CF 06 00 Debouncing repeat.
    Oct-12 9:03:32 PM Insteon ..Retry #2 required. Pausing 300ms for RF PLM to clear...
    Oct-12 9:03:32 PM Insteon ..Got NAK from the RF PLM for command
    Oct-12 9:03:32 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 11 00 01 CF 06 00
    Oct-12 9:03:32 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 00 01 01 CF 11 01
    Oct-12 9:03:32 PM Insteon ..Retry #1 required. Pausing 250ms for RF PLM to clear...
    Oct-12 9:03:32 PM Insteon ..Got NAK from the RF PLM for command
    Oct-12 9:03:32 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 00 00 01 CF 11 01 Debouncing repeat.
    Oct-12 9:03:32 PM Insteon Sending command 02 62 00 00 44 CF 11 00 to RF PLM, (Expecting 0 bytes extra back) Pre-Payload ACK:False, NAK is ok:False
    Oct-12 9:03:32 PM Insteon TransmitGroupMsg called for device code: Group:68, RF PLM Group 68
    Oct-12 9:03:32 PM Insteon Setting status and value for device 40.D8.35:1. Old status:0 Old Value:0, New Status:2 New Value:100
    Oct-12 9:03:31 PM Insteon ProcessGroupBroadcastUpdateResponders: Located remote link record match for group broadcast - Device:40.D8.35 link record #2 target channel 1
    Oct-12 9:03:31 PM Insteon Setting value for device Group:68. Old Value:2, New Value: 1
    Oct-12 9:03:31 PM Device Control Device: Upper Bedroom #3 Scene A to On (1)
    Oct-12 9:03:31 PM Event Event Trigger "Lighting Events - Activity On Activity On - Bedroom #3 (night or dark)"
    Oct-12 9:03:31 PM Insteon Setting status and value for device 31.D8.FC:1. Old status:0 Old Value:0, New Status:2 New Value:100
    Oct-12 9:03:31 PM Insteon ProcessGroupBroadcast: Device Upper Bedroom #3 Motion Sensor (31.D8.FC) is group broadcast source (tgt group/button:1) sending cmd 11
    Oct-12 9:03:31 PM Insteon Received Upper Bedroom #3 Motion Sensor Occupancy Sensor: Motion Sensor: Status (31.D8.FC) Go ON
    Oct-12 9:03:31 PM Insteon ProcessInsteonTrigger Parameters: DeviceID=31.D8.FC, Command=11, Command2=01, Group=1
    Oct-12 9:03:31 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 00 00 01 CF 11 01

    HomeSeer 3, Insteon, Z-wave, USB-UIRT, Google Hub/Chromecasts/Smart Speakers, Foscam cameras, Amcrest camera, RCA HSDB2a doorbell
    Plugins: BLLAN, BLOccupied, BLUSBUIRT, Chromecast, Insteon, Jon00 Homeseer/Echo Skill Helper, Jon00 DB Charting, MediaController, NetCAM, PHLocation2, Pushover 3P, weatherXML, Z-wave

    #2
    for testing purposes, put a delay before the group command is sent. this will give the MS time to stop transmitting msgs.

    another test would be to link the 2-wire switch directly to the motion sensor to see if the switch goes on during motion
    Mark

    HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
    Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
    Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
    Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

    Comment


      #3
      A delay of 3 seconds was enough to allow the group command to work. 1 second wasn't. I didn't test 2 seconds.

      I changed the command from a group command to a device command, and that works when triggered via the motion sensor's event without the added delay, but I assumed that is because with direct device commands, the PLM or plugin will retry a set number of times until acknowledgement is received, unfortunately I didn't observe that in the log below. And group commands don't work that way unless group cleanup is enabled. Is all that correct? This brings up a feature request I've had in my head for a while, and that is to enable group clean-up on a per group basis.

      The motion sensor and 2-wire dimmer in question are in close proximity to each other. I'd rather not change that and I'm not sure it would help any. Is anything actually wrong or broken here? It seems to me the motion sensor is repeating itself and interfering with the group command. Do you concur and is there anything I can do about it? Is there anything the plugin can do about it? I have another dual-band dimmer nearish to the 2-wire dimmer, perhaps the same distance the motion sensor is from the 2-wire dimmer, so I don't think there's much I can do to improve signal.

      Why exactly do direct device commands always work better than group commands? This is not the first time I've experienced issues with group command communication. I have great Insteon statistics, and could poll most devices 100 times without a single failure, yet group commands seem to travel differently and are more frequently missed by my devices. I've never been able to figure out why. Are group commands not repeated?

      Oct-13 10:06:43 PM Insteon Setting status and value for device 40.D8.35:1. Old status:0 Old Value:0, New Status:2 New Value:100
      Oct-13 10:06:43 PM Insteon Received a Direct ACK from Upper Bedroom #3 Light (40.D8.35): 40 D8 35 44 D1 10 2B 11 FF
      Oct-13 10:06:43 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):40 D8 35 44 D1 10 2B 11 FF
      Oct-13 10:06:42 PM Insteon ..Got RF PLM Response 02 62 40 D8 35 0F 11 FF 06
      Oct-13 10:06:42 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 11 00 01 CF 06 00 Debouncing repeat.
      Oct-13 10:06:42 PM Insteon ..Retry #2 required. Pausing 300ms for RF PLM to clear...
      Oct-13 10:06:42 PM Insteon ..Got NAK from the RF PLM for command
      Oct-13 10:06:42 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 11 00 01 CF 06 00
      Oct-13 10:06:42 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 00 01 01 CF 11 01
      Oct-13 10:06:41 PM Insteon ..Retry #1 required. Pausing 250ms for RF PLM to clear...
      Oct-13 10:06:41 PM Insteon ..Got NAK from the RF PLM for command
      Oct-13 10:06:41 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 00 00 01 CF 11 01 Debouncing repeat.
      Oct-13 10:06:41 PM Insteon Sending command 02 62 40 D8 35 0F 11 FF to RF PLM, (Expecting 0 bytes extra back) Pre-Payload ACK:False, NAK is ok:False
      Oct-13 10:06:41 PM Insteon CAPIControl: Label=On, Value=100, ControlType=Button
      Oct-13 10:06:41 PM Device Control Device: Upper Bedroom #3 Light to On (100)
      Oct-13 10:06:41 PM Event Event Trigger "Lighting Events - Activity On Activity On - Bedroom #3 (night or dark)"
      Oct-13 10:06:41 PM Insteon Setting status and value for device 31.D8.FC:1. Old status:0 Old Value:0, New Status:2 New Value:100
      Oct-13 10:06:41 PM Insteon ProcessGroupBroadcast: Device Upper Bedroom #3 Motion Sensor (31.D8.FC) is group broadcast source (tgt group/button:1) sending cmd 11
      Oct-13 10:06:41 PM Insteon Received Upper Bedroom #3 Motion Sensor Occupancy Sensor: Motion Sensor: Status (31.D8.FC) Go ON
      Oct-13 10:06:41 PM Insteon ProcessInsteonTrigger Parameters: DeviceID=31.D8.FC, Command=11, Command2=01, Group=1
      Oct-13 10:06:41 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 00 00 01 CF 11 01
      HomeSeer 3, Insteon, Z-wave, USB-UIRT, Google Hub/Chromecasts/Smart Speakers, Foscam cameras, Amcrest camera, RCA HSDB2a doorbell
      Plugins: BLLAN, BLOccupied, BLUSBUIRT, Chromecast, Insteon, Jon00 Homeseer/Echo Skill Helper, Jon00 DB Charting, MediaController, NetCAM, PHLocation2, Pushover 3P, weatherXML, Z-wave

      Comment


        #4
        group commands are sent once and then follow up with cleanup messages which verify if each device execute the grp command. So there is no retries on failures. Group clean up messages are low priority, so any new device command that comes along will override a group cleanup.
        Mark

        HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
        Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
        Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
        Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

        Comment


          #5
          Apologies for any confusion. When I asked "Are group commands not repeated?" I was wondering if group commands are echoed by other devices throughout the network. IOW, does it "hop", if necessary, like direct communication apparently does?

          I understand the group commands are not repeated by the PLM, however in my experience, enabling group cleanup seems to allow the devices that missed the command to correct themselves. I base this on seeing the lights that didn't go on with the rest, go on a second or two after. That was with a different group that I don't have problems with anymore. I tested the group that started this thread, which consists of 1 light, with group cleanup enabled and it turned on every time. After disabling cleanup again, it stopped turning on. I don't want to leave the group cleanup feature enabled because I don't want all that usually unnecessary traffic. Hence my renewed interest in being able to specify whether or not to run group cleanup on the group level. Is that a possibility? That would solve my problem here.

          Note: while this is only 1 light, and direct communication works as expected, I still want the group command to work because it has a different ramp rate than the device's default. It doesn't appear you can specify ramp rate with direct device communication, only dim level.

          Log with cleanup enabled. I question this first line, here. I think the device reacted to the cleanup message, not the group command.

          Oct-14 8:46:50 PM Insteon The device 40.D8.35 heard and executed the group broadcast command.
          Oct-14 8:46:50 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):40 D8 35 44 D1 10 6B 11 44
          Oct-14 8:46:50 PM Insteon ..Got RF PLM Response 02 62 40 D8 35 4F 11 44 06
          Oct-14 8:46:50 PM Insteon Sending command 02 62 40 D8 35 4F 11 44 to RF PLM, (Expecting 0 bytes extra back) Pre-Payload ACK:False, NAK is ok:False
          Oct-14 8:46:50 PM Insteon * Now Initiating group clean-ups for group 68...
          Oct-14 8:46:50 PM Insteon ..Got RF PLM Response 02 62 00 00 44 CF 11 00 06
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 11 00 01 CF 06 00 Debouncing repeat.
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon ..Retry #2 required. Pausing 300ms for RF PLM to clear...
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon ..Got NAK from the RF PLM for command
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 11 00 01 CF 06 00
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 00 01 01 CF 11 01
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon ..Retry #1 required. Pausing 250ms for RF PLM to clear...
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon ..Got NAK from the RF PLM for command
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 00 00 01 CF 11 01 Debouncing repeat.
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon Sending command 02 62 00 00 44 CF 11 00 to RF PLM, (Expecting 0 bytes extra back) Pre-Payload ACK:False, NAK is ok:False
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon TransmitGroupMsg called for device code: Group:68, RF PLM Group 68
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon Setting status and value for device 40.D8.35:1. Old status:0 Old Value:0, New Status:2 New Value:100
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon ProcessGroupBroadcastUpdateResponders: Located remote link record match for group broadcast - Device:40.D8.35 link record #2 target channel 1
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Device Control Device: Upper Bedroom #3 Scene A to On (1)
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Event Event Trigger "Lighting Events - Activity On Activity On - Bedroom #3 (night or dark)"
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon Setting status and value for device 31.D8.FC:1. Old status:0 Old Value:0, New Status:2 New Value:100
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon ProcessGroupBroadcast: Device Upper Bedroom #3 Motion Sensor (31.D8.FC) is group broadcast source (tgt group/button:1) sending cmd 11
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon Received Upper Bedroom #3 Motion Sensor Occupancy Sensor: Motion Sensor: Status (31.D8.FC) Go ON
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon ProcessInsteonTrigger Parameters: DeviceID=31.D8.FC, Command=11, Command2=01, Group=1
          Oct-14 8:46:49 PM Insteon Received STX 0x50 (Raw Insteon Rec):31 D8 FC 00 00 01 CF 11 01
          HomeSeer 3, Insteon, Z-wave, USB-UIRT, Google Hub/Chromecasts/Smart Speakers, Foscam cameras, Amcrest camera, RCA HSDB2a doorbell
          Plugins: BLLAN, BLOccupied, BLUSBUIRT, Chromecast, Insteon, Jon00 Homeseer/Echo Skill Helper, Jon00 DB Charting, MediaController, NetCAM, PHLocation2, Pushover 3P, weatherXML, Z-wave

          Comment


            #6
            All messages are repeated a certain number of times

            there is an insteon action "lights on at ramp rate" that allow you to specific on level and ramp rate at the same time.
            Mark

            HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
            Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
            Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
            Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

            Comment


              #7
              Oh, great! I've used other Insteon Actions but never noticed that one. That will solve my problem with this 1-light group. I would still make use of group cleanup if I could enable it only on specific groups. It would be nice for the "All Off" type groups when leaving the home to make sure everything is off, and of course any other group communication issues that may arise in the future. Would that be a possible addition, someday? You could leave the global setting and just add a group-level setting that would be looked at only if the global setting is off/unchecked.
              HomeSeer 3, Insteon, Z-wave, USB-UIRT, Google Hub/Chromecasts/Smart Speakers, Foscam cameras, Amcrest camera, RCA HSDB2a doorbell
              Plugins: BLLAN, BLOccupied, BLUSBUIRT, Chromecast, Insteon, Jon00 Homeseer/Echo Skill Helper, Jon00 DB Charting, MediaController, NetCAM, PHLocation2, Pushover 3P, weatherXML, Z-wave

              Comment

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