PLM or Plug-in limitation for insteon links?

[jono]

Hi Mark,
I have 197 devices, almost 1000 PLM links and 34 groups. I'm thinking about adding an extra building and wondering if the PLM (or plug in) has any limitation to the number of devices or links. The Main Config page gives me this info:
"You have 197 internal Insteon device(s) registered in the system, 5 external device(s), and 34 group(s).
These devices and groups currently consume 992 link database entries in your interface.*
You have 82 unused outbound link addresses out of 254 total available."
I don't know what an outbound link address is. If it were one per device then I would only have 254 minus 197 or 57 available.
If you have a moment could you please share any insight?
Thanks much

[George]

I believe the hub has less but the PLM has a 256 device limit. mnsandler can tell us for sure. I just remember reading that one had more capability than the other but I could have them backwards.

[mnsandler]

Jono
the outbound links are for controlling groups (and older KPLs). they are already included in your 992 count

the limitations are hardware PLM based (not software)

i dont have an exact number of links each interface (plm or hub) supports; It seems to change based on the hw model you have.

but at 992 i think we have already discovered you are nearly full

[jono]

Ok, I'm in a bit of trouble with this. I hope you can help me think through it. I just did some googling and it appears my PLM (2413) is limited to 992 links. I suspected something was up this weekend when I replaced two devices and the PLM would not received button presses from them. I reset and reprogrammed the PLM and the new devices worked, but maybe the just pushed others out of the 992 count (this might happen is they are loaded alphabetically, or any other method other than the order of registration).
So, my question is how do I reduced links? I have created a whole bunch of scenes with a keypad button as a controller. Am I better off taking off the controller and writing an event that triggers the group with a button push? What actually counts as a link, and is there a strategy for reducing links while still maintaining functionality?
Thanks

[mnsandler]

Jono,
the biggest consumer of interface links is the KPL.

how many i2, and i2cs KPLs do you have?

edit: removed the group comment

[jono]

15 x i2 KPLs
1 x i1 KPL
3 x i1 countdown timer KPLs
1 x i2 countdown timer KPLs
I also have a remotelinc which has a lot of buttons but I never use so will delete it.
I PM'd you the links pdf which seems to have a lot of links based on groups, so wondering if that might play a part in a link reduction strategy.
thanks

[jono]

Interestingly, when I reset and reprogram it counts up to 1382 links programmed. Then I get this data on the main page:
"You have 193 internal Insteon device(s) registered in the system, 5 external device(s), and 34 group(s).
These devices and groups currently consume 992 link database entries in your interface.*
You have 82 unused outbound link addresses out of 254 total available."

[mnsandler]

lets try the following on one KPL

shutdown the plugin
edit the insteon.ini and add the following to the [config] section
KPLGroupLinks=False

save, close and restart the plugin


pick one of the i2 KPLs for a this:

go to the edit link page for the KPL

delete the links for B, C, D, etc that look like this

Button B is controlled by HomeSeer using RF PLM Group #X

this will free up those links in the PLM/interface


if you are unsure what to delete, post a pic of the links from the Device Link Table

[jono]

Thanks I will try that. Will make an additional back up first.
Is the idea that once the group is created and controlled by a controller device, then the PLM links are not relevant because the commands are delivered controller switch to responder switch and the PLM is not doing anything?
I assume after doing the above, I should test the groups. It will interesting to see if it works from controller button press, controller button press from the plug in, group drop down button in the plug in.
My question is should I do a reset on the PLM after making the changes and before testing?

[mnsandler]

none of this is related to plugin groups or controllers.

the original KPLs (i1) need a PLM link to control each button. this plugin logic was continued with with the new i2 KPLs but is not required.

there are newer insteon cmds to control kpl buttons. we are just changing mechanisms from the old to the new here

you can run a reset to see if the count goes down by the number of links you deleted.

the plm link database doesn't report whether a link is active or not when it is displayed in the table.

[jono]

Got it. So if this works, I can save 15 i2 KPLs times 8 buttons or 120 links.
According the display when resetting and reprogramming, my system is writing almost 1400 links. I'm wondering if that number is somehow inflated.

[jono]

Just reporting back here. I did the insteon.ini edit, and then deleted links. On just one KPL there were 43 of those links out of something like 160. So I deleted the 43.
So before the deletion, reset and reprogram showed 1383 Links Programed, after the deletion of 43, the reset and reprogram showed 1300 Links Programmed. (By the way it is easy to count the Links Programmed by turning on logging to "debug", which means I can just check the log rather than watch the screen count up).

In both cases, before and after deletion, the Main page showed the exactly the same figures:
"You have 193 internal Insteon device(s) registered in the system, 5 external device(s), and 34 group(s).
These devices and groups currently consume 992 link database entries in your interface.*
You have 190 unused outbound link addresses out of 254 total available"

I will see if the deletion has any discernable effect on operations. If not, I have another 14 i2 KPLs to work on. I think the goal is to get the number under 992, but I'm not sure why!

[mnsandler]

Jono, I'm curious, other than wanting to add more devices to the system, are you having issues with the current setup?

[jono]

No issues, other than I had a challenge replacing two devices as noted in post #4. The PLM didn’t capture button presses until I did a reset/reprogram. I had never seen that before so I started wondering if I was maxing out.

I also added a lot of keypads this Fall and was just getting around to programming them with scenes, so I have been thinking about efficiency. Finally I ran conduit to another building for networking and a line voltage line to carry the insteon signal there. I think it is now clear I can’t put another 50-70 devices from that building on the same insteon system. So I will have to figure out how to do that, but perhaps that is for a different thread.

Thanks as always for your help Mark. I would be nowhere with insteon if it wasn’t for you.

[jono]

I do have a bunch of these links " (Bad Link Entry, unreferenced group #)", so this process is cleaning those up too.