Need feedback on important changes to Insteon KPL fw 41+ support

[mnsandler]

all,
Smarthome has been making some changes to the KPL FW 41+ (in device types "011B", "011C", "020F", "021E", "022C") that I am trying to add support for.

Currently when you register one of these KPLs (w/ fw 41+) its using the old code which uses more links to control the KPL btns and provides the Trigger group feature.

When I release the new code, it will change the support for any KPL fw 41+ you have registered.

The Trigger Group feature will go away, and a new feature will appear (can't discuss yet). One feature is that i now control the kpl btns via a single cmd instead of individual PLM links

There really is no way for me to keep the old code for the new FWs.

I don't think you will need to delete and reregister, but removing some of the unnecessary links might be helpful to you.

Curious what you think of this?

[claude]

My KPL is FW 43, but device type 0141 (insteon.ini), which is not listed in your email. So would your proposed changes not apply to me?

I'm not sure what you mean by "The Trigger Group feature will go away": can you expand?

[mnsandler]

My KPL is FW 43, but device type 0141 (insteon.ini), which is not listed in your email. So would your proposed changes not apply to me?

I'm not sure what you mean by "The Trigger Group feature will go away": can you expand?

the 0141 and 0142 KPLs are new device types and already use the new code. no change here.

the Trigger Group feature is an option on the edit device page of the plugin page under the HS Control column (for older kpls). there is a desc there.

[TechHA]

I have 3 KPL's with FW 43. I would definitely hate to have to remove and re-add each KPL and go through all the linking and fix all the events that rely on them. Removing some dead links wouldn't be a problem though.

Looking forward to hearing about the new feature...

[mnsandler]

I have 3 KPL's with FW 43. I would definitely hate to have to remove and re-add each KPL and go through all the linking and fix all the events that rely on them. Removing some dead links wouldn't be a problem though.

Looking forward to hearing about the new feature...

Yah, i think removing the dead links is all that will be needed

[UltimateInternet]

Anything that causes forward progress and better software is ok in my book. I only have 3 KPL's at v43 and 1 at v41 so as much work as I did getting them set up, it wouldn't be too bad to re-configure at any "depth" -- they are tricky little buggers at any rate...

[mnsandler]

All,
i wanted to follow up on this topic..

1. KPLs with fw 41+ have a feature call 'detachable load'

this means you can set an option where the on/off btns no longer control the load. An additional hs device is created and is then used to control the load. Thus the load is not controllable physically, only via sw.

you can then use the on/off btns to control/link to another device.

this feature can only be set via the plugin

2. the other fw change i mentioned before is that new KPLs don't need PLM links to control the buttons.

thoughts?

[claude]

From what I understand, this 'detach load' option is only useful if you don't have a physical load attached to the KPL, right?

[mnsandler]

From what I understand, this 'detach load' option is only useful if you don't have a physical load attached to the KPL, right?

yes, basically. I'm not sure how useful it will really be. Sometimes Smarthome builds it and they don't come.

[Burrington]

I can see this feature being useful. For example, you have a switch installed in your house for an outside light. You want to control the outside light via sunrise/sunset, or a motion sensor, leaving no need for an actual physical switch to turn it on and off. That lets you use all the buttons for other uses such as home/away, lighting scenes, etc, etc. I actually have an application in my house where the on/off buttons are effectively useless and I could make much better use of them for other purposes.

[mnsandler]

I can see this feature being useful. For example, you have a switch installed in your house for an outside light. You want to control the outside light via sunrise/sunset, or a motion sensor, leaving no need for an actual physical switch to turn it on and off. That lets you use all the buttons for other uses such as home/away, lighting scenes, etc, etc. I actually have an application in my house where the on/off buttons are effectively useless and I could make much better use of them for other purposes.

thanks for the use case.

[mfreese]

Another use case would be to use the KPL as a FanLinc controller, where the FanLinc controls light and fan completely, instead of having the light load wired into the KPL or another dimmer

[joegr]

Another use case would be to use the KPL as a FanLinc controller, where the FanLinc controls light and fan completely, instead of having the light load wired into the KPL or another dimmer

I have that now, but I didn't use the detach load option as I wasn't sure of it. I just capped off the red wire and linked the load button to the light part of the fanlinc. I guess that using detach load might reduce some effort inside the keypadlic, but I don't see what it's hurting. Now, if I had some other load that I needed to control that was near that keypadlinc, then I could see the use for detach load. If I understand correctly, it would give me another independent load control device that I could use.

[sbueffel]

At first I didn't get why this would be of any value. I have a KPL in a 3-way and it is in the Line box, so the red is capped. The load button is linked to the SL in the Load box, so it already is doing something besides controlling local load. But then I realized that if I <i>did</I> want to control the load separately from the local on/off, then detach load would apply. So it isn't for when there is no local load, as one of the previous posters said, but for when you don't want the load button to manage load while still doing other things. Is this correct?

Scott

[mnsandler]

At first I didn't get why this would be of any value. I have a KPL in a 3-way and it is in the Line box, so the red is capped. The load button is linked to the SL in the Load box, so it already is doing something besides controlling local load. But then I realized that if I <i>did</I> want to control the load separately from the local on/off, then detach load would apply. So it isn't for when there is no local load, as one of the previous posters said, but for when you don't want the load button to manage load while still doing other things. Is this correct?

Scott

i think you are saying the same thing in a different way. Once you 'detach the load' from the on/off btns, you can use the on/off btns to control anything you want via a link.