Multiple KPL button sync

[ez1976]

Hi Mark
i have 3 KPL that control the same things.
i would like to sync all the 3 of them so if i turn on one KPL it will also turn on all three.


now i linked each KPL with a device (lets say window shades) so i have on each KPL

Button A control window shades
Windows shade control button A

now my idea was that since the shades control can control the button on all 3 KPL's button A it will turn on and off all together.
that didnt work so i tried to link each button A on each KPL to sync with the other KPL's button A.
that actually caused a lot of homeseer <-> KPL traffic.

what is the correct way to sync all three of them?
thanks

[brmeeke]

I was faced with a similar situation. My solution was probably not what the HS experts would do but my solution did solve the problem.

I arbitrarily nominated one of the keypads as the "Master". In my case, Family Room Keypad Button "A" triggered the event that turned on the house lights every evening. Next, I created two other events. One event for the other two keypads. These secondary events are triggered when their designated button is turned ON. The difference between these other events and the event associated with the "Master" is that all these events do is to ensure that the appropriate button is turned ON at the other two keypads.

What this means is that regardless of what keypad is touched, all three keypads have their respective button turned ON but only one of these events actually performs the desired action. I then used the same logic to turn everything off.

Good Luck Let me know if you are unsure about my approach. I suspect that there is probably a more elegant way to do this with Groups and I am probably going to test this method in a couple of weeks.


Brian

[ez1976]

Hey
well since i did a 3-way button sync, i am afraid that it will cause a loop in the system.

kpl 1 will tell kpl 2 to change status -> will tell kpl 3 to change status -> will tell kpl 1 to change status.


how does group button work?
i havent tried it yet.

[brmeeke]

Understand your concern. The key is to use the test that says "changes and becomes On" as that condition is only true once.

Here are my 4 events. They have worked for me for several months:

IF Family Room Keypad - Button A changes and becomes On
Then Set Device Front Hall Keypad - Button B to On
Then Set Device Master Bedroom Button B to On

IF Front Hall Keypad - Button B changes and becomes On
Then Set Device Family Room Keypad - Button A to On

IF Master Bedroom Button B changes and becomes On
Then Set Device Family Room Keypad - Button A to On

IF Family Room Keypad - Button A changes and becomes On
Then Set Device Family Room Keypad - Button B to On
Then Set Device Kitchen Counter Light Switch to On
Then Set Device Front Hall Keypad - Button On/Load to On
Then Set Device Family Room Keypad - Button C to On


Good Luck


Brian

[ez1976]

Hey Mark
i have a question: since i synced the 3 keypads all together that each button will be synced with the parallel button on the other 2 keypads, i am suspecting this is what is causing the crash of the plugin every hour or so.
what is the correct way to sync 3 keypads with a device so all the lights will be synced together?
is there a way to turn on a button without having it do its action?
everything works great until a point that i see this in the log:
06:45:11 Insteon TransmitDeviceCommand for Ref: 419, Device: 30.0D.BB, Group :0E
מאי-19 06:45:12 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 2C.96.8A:1
מאי-19 06:45:12 Insteon Received message from Children Small Room Shades (2C.96.8A) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:12 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Children Small Room Keypad 6 Buttons Button A: Button A - Shades (30.10.BB)
מאי-19 06:45:12 Insteon TransmitDeviceCommand for Ref: 443, Device: 30.10.BB, Group :09
מאי-19 06:45:13 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 20.1C.F5:1
מאי-19 06:45:13 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Right Shades (20.1C.F5) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:13 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad Button B: Button B - Right Shades (30.64.E0)
מאי-19 06:45:14 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad (30.64.E0) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:14 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 30.64.E0:4
מאי-19 06:45:14 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Bedside 8 Keypad (Left) Button D: Button D - Right Shades (2B.FF.D3)
מאי-19 06:45:15 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Bedside 8 Keypad (Left) (2B.FF.D3) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:15 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 2B.FF.D3:4
מאי-19 06:45:15 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad Button B: Button B - Right Shades (30.64.E0)
מאי-19 06:45:16 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad (30.64.E0) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:16 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 30.64.E0:4
מאי-19 06:45:16 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Bedside 8 Keypad (Left) Button D: Button D - Right Shades (2B.FF.D3)
מאי-19 06:45:17 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Bedside 8 Keypad (Left) (2B.FF.D3) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:17 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 2B.FF.D3:4
מאי-19 06:45:17 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad Button B: Button B - Right Shades (30.64.E0)
מאי-19 06:45:18 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad (30.64.E0) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:18 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 30.64.E0:4
מאי-19 06:45:18 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Bedside 8 Keypad (Left) Button D: Button D - Right Shades (2B.FF.D3)
מאי-19 06:45:19 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Bedside 8 Keypad (Left) (2B.FF.D3) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:19 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 2B.FF.D3:4
מאי-19 06:45:19 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad Button B: Button B - Right Shades (30.64.E0)
מאי-19 06:45:20 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad (30.64.E0) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:20 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 30.64.E0:4
מאי-19 06:45:20 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Bedside 8 Keypad (Left) Button D: Button D - Right Shades (2B.FF.D3)
מאי-19 06:45:21 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Bedside 8 Keypad (Left) (2B.FF.D3) taking hops: 2
מאי-19 06:45:21 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 2B.FF.D3:4
מאי-19 06:45:21 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad Button B: Button B - Right Shades (30.64.E0)
מאי-19 06:45:23 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad (30.64.E0) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:23 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 30.64.E0:4
מאי-19 06:45:23 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Bedside 8 Keypad (Left) Button D: Button D - Right Shades (2B.FF.D3)
מאי-19 06:45:26 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Bedside 8 Keypad (Left) (2B.FF.D3) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:26 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 2B.FF.D3:4
מאי-19 06:45:26 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad Button B: Button B - Right Shades (30.64.E0)

[mnsandler]

is the following your setup? i found this from your other post. the lines in red are redundant. was this a typo

KPL 1 Button A <-> KPL 2 Button A
KPL 2 Button A <-> KPL 3 Button A
KPL 2 Button A <-> KPL 3 Button A

KPL 1 Button B <-> KPL 2 Button B
KPL 2 Button B <-> KPL 3 Button B
KPL 2 Button B <-> KPL 3 Button B


KPL 1 Button C <-> KPL 2 Button C
KPL 2 Button C <-> KPL 3 Button C
KPL 2 Button C <-> KPL 3 Button C

[ez1976]

Maybe This Will be better?

KPL 1 Button A <-> KPL 2 Button A
KPL 1 Button A <-> KPL 3 Button A
KPL 1 Button A <-> Left Shade

KPL 2 Button A <-> KPL 1 Button A
KPL 2 Button A <-> KPL 3 Button A
KPL 2 Button A <-> Left Shade

KPL 3 Button A <-> KPL 1 Button A
KPL 3 Button A <-> KPL 2 Button A
KPL 3 Button A <-> Left Shade

KPL 1 Button B <-> KPL 2 Button B
KPL 1 Button B <-> KPL 3 Button B
KPL 1 Button B <-> Right Shade

KPL 2 Button B <-> KPL 1 Button B
KPL 2 Button B <-> KPL 3 Button B
KPL 2 Button B <-> Right Shade

KPL 3 Button B <-> KPL 1 Button B
KPL 3 Button B <-> KPL 2 Button B
KPL 3 Button B <-> Right Shade

[mnsandler]

can you verify the links by rereading the links on these two KPLs

i don't understand why B and D are linked

06:45:21 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad Button B: Button B - Right Shades (30.64.E0)
מאי-19 06:45:23 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Main 6 Keypad (30.64.E0) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:23 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 30.64.E0:4
מאי-19 06:45:23 Insteon Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Bedside 8 Keypad (Left) Button D: Button D - Right Shades (2B.FF.D3)
מאי-19 06:45:26 Insteon Received message from Parents Bedroom Bedside 8 Keypad (Left) (2B.FF.D3) taking hops: 1
מאי-19 06:45:26 Insteon SyncResponderDevices called for device code: 2B.FF.D3:4

[ez1976]

main KPL - button B controls Right shades
Right KPL button D controls Right shade
Left KPL Button D controls Right shade


so i programmed each KPL a crosslink with the right shade module.
i expected that since all the kpls are also responders of the module i though once any kpl will open/close the module, it will turn on/off the light on the other KPLs.
but this never works so i had to link each kpl button with the parallel button on the other KPL.

main KPL - button B controls Right KPL button D & Left KPL Button D
Right KPL button D controls Main KPL Button B & Left KPL button D
Left KPL Button D controls Main KPL Button B & Right KPL Button D


if i can only link all 3 with the module itself and have it turn on the light on the other KPL - that will be the best but for some reason the other KPL buttons are never in sync

[mnsandler]

i would suggest disabling the 'sync' option on all the devices involved in this setup. then create insteon groups and turn these groups on and off using events triggered by a device changing value.

[ez1976]

Correct me if i am wrong but insteon groups can be triggered by only one device at a time.
so we are talking about 6 groups: 3 groups for each device to turn on and 3 groups for each device to turn off... correct?


can i cross link the MAIN kpl with each of the right and left kpls only? instead of having the right and left kpl be synced between themselves?

would that help sync the lights?



since i removed the 3 way link, the plugin havent crashed once...
is there anything you can do on your side to stabilize it on 3-way KPL syncs?

[joegr]

Create the groups with HomeSeer as the controller (don't pick a controller when creating the groups). Then trigger the groups using events in HomeSeer. This will greatly cut down on the number of groups needed.

[ez1976]

Ok Guys here is a bit of the results.


i tried only 1 way sync:

Main KPL button 1 <-> Left Bedside KPL button 1
Main KPL button 1 <-> Right Bedside KPL button 1

Main KPL button 2 <-> Left Bedside KPL button 2
Main KPL button 2 <-> Right Bedside KPL button 2


It caused a lot of traffic and i got these errors in the logs.
20/05/2015 20:37:39 - Sending sync command to linked responder device: Parents Bedroom Left Shades (2C.95.F6)
20/05/2015 20:37:39 - ***:Error in SyncResponderDevices: Arithmetic operation resulted in an overflow. -- Details System.OverflowException: Arithmetic operation resulted in an overflow.



this caused the plugin to crash. the funny thing about it is that it can be all night before something will trigger a sync between the KPL and it will go into a loop and crash (or just stop responding).

so i tried it with events:
if left shade turns "open"
or main kpl button 1 turns on
or left KPL button 1 turns on
or right kpl button 1 turns on

then:
main kpl button 1 - on
left kpl button 1 - on
right kpl button 1 - on
left shade - open.

did the same for left shade open & close and right shade open & close (4 events in total)
this caused again a lot of traffic because it seems to be in a loop as well.



so i tried groups:
i deleted all links between all KPLs and the open/close module.
created group called "parents left shade":
main kpl button 1 - on
left kpl button 1 - on
right kpl button 1 - on
left shade - open.

i set the Main KPL button 1 as the controller of the group so if i press it, the hub will open the shade and turn on all the other KPL's button - this works very fast.

so i created the 2 events (one for open and one for close):
or left KPL button 1 turns on
or right kpl button 1 turns on

then:
Group Parents Left Shade -> ON

this will enable be to start the group from the bedside KPL with about 5-10 seconds delay (something i can live with if the plugin will stop crashing).


did the same for the left shade close event.

then did the same with the right shade.
conclusion:
by having only 1 controller of the group, all devices will actually respond pretty quick.

Mark, can more than 1 device be a controller for the group?
i really hope this helps someone else....

[jono]

Create the groups with HomeSeer as the controller (don't pick a controller when creating the groups). Then trigger the groups using events in HomeSeer. This will greatly cut down on the number of groups needed.

This has worked for me for a long time. The only thing I would add is to set the event so it can't be repeated for a few seconds. That will keep the other KPL buttons from re-triggering the same event.

[ez1976]

how?
with a timer?