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    Hub or 2413?

    Mark,

    My old 2413U appears to have just died. (Port there, but plugin can't access).

    I'm looking to replace but want to know if you'd recommend another 2413U or should I go with the newer 2245-222 hub?

    Thanks,
    Rick

    #2
    have you tried a factory reset on the unit? if not ,please do so, you can reprogram from the plugin config page.

    otherwise i would recommend another 2413u. SH has redesigned the hardware (now V2.x) and its stronger (in terms of sending signals) and more reliable.

    my guess is your current unit is a v1.x
    Last edited by mnsandler; February 3, 2016, 04:28 PM.
    Mark

    HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
    Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
    Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
    Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

    Comment


      #3
      The 2413 will not reset. Your PI occasionally connects, but receives nothing but NAKs. I've upgraded PI and Driver with no success.

      I'll order a new 2413...thanks.

      Comment


        #4
        ok. make sure you upgrade the PI to the latest before running the swap routine. i made some changes in the betas that are posted which should help with the swap.
        Mark

        HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
        Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
        Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
        Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by madmellow View Post
          ...I'll order a new 2413...thanks.
          Amazon has a better deal on these than SmartHome, even more so if you have Prime. (Amazon is selling the new 2.x ones.)

          Comment


            #6
            PI is already at 3.0.5.54, and it's already ordered from Amazon (prime). It should be here Friday.

            Thanks for the hint about "swap". I really wasn't looking forward to relearning the devices.

            Comment


              #7
              Mark,

              Now I'm totally stumped. I got the new 2413U and it behaves the same as the old one. The PI will establish connectivity, all commands fail for a while, then it attempts to restart, which fails, then it gives up. I began to think that I had a problem with the SWAP failed almost immediatly.

              I've detail-dumped a few seconds of log (attached, I think) and it appears that the PLM replies with NAK to every command.

              Is it possible that I have a screaming device in my house which is hogging the spectrum? I'm just guessing.

              Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I'm totally baffled at this point.

              Rick
              Attached Files

              Comment


                #8
                I'm starting to think you are having usb issues. two suggestions in the following order:

                1. have you updated the ftdi chipset drivers lately? if not, visit their site and update

                2. do the following:
                shutdown hs
                add the following to the [config] section of insteon.ini
                PortType=USB
                restart hs
                Mark

                HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
                Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
                Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
                Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

                Comment


                  #9
                  Mark,

                  Thanks for your reply. I'd already updated the driver, and adding PortType didn't change the behavior.

                  This all started at 8:45AM Wednesday (1st "Transmit Failed..." log entry). Later today I intend to try disconnecting my Insteon devices and see if the PLM/PI will at least stay alive. I'm suspisous of a 2450...

                  Any other ideas?

                  Thanks,

                  Rick

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I would start by shutting off circuits until I isolated the issue and then I would start looking at devices on that circuit.

                    i had a similar issue once where an switchlinc was continuously broadcasting RF signals and it was disrupting other good rf msgs.

                    the 2450s can be signal eaters. might not be a bad place to start if its on the same circuit as the plm.

                    good luck, let us know what you find
                    Mark

                    HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
                    Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
                    Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
                    Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Mark,

                      I've spent all day fussing with this and I'm ready for a strong drink!

                      I disconnected every Insteon (and one old X10) device in the house. Same problem(s).

                      I rolled-back my PC to a check-point prior to the problems started, then reinstalled the FTDI driver and PI update, and still have the same problem(s).

                      Just to make sure, I loaded a trial copy of HS3 with driver and your PI to a Windows 7 netbook, and it's not working. I've tried the old and new 2413U with every configuration and the problems persist.

                      As one final test, I took my W7 laptop out to the shed and plugged into a generator. The 2413 would not sync with a 2456.

                      My only remaining idea is that a got a defective 2413 from Amazon, which behaves similar to the one I had to begin with.

                      Any other thoughts before I call Amazon for yet another 2413?

                      Rick

                      Comment


                        #12
                        i can't comment on the generator experiment, but did you try to find any noisy devices on the house circuit as the plm?

                        is the computer on the same circuit at plm?

                        did you reset the new plm?

                        i don't think this is a plm issue.
                        Mark

                        HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
                        Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway
                        Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 (by Kirby) | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | NetCAM | MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Jon00 Charting
                        Platform: HP h8-1360t, Windows Server 2012 R2, i7-3.4GHz, 16GB memory

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Do you have any battery backups? I've found that they can eat signals too. The generator probably isn't a great test since they tend to be pretty noisy unless you have an inverter based generator.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by madmellow View Post
                            ...As one final test, I took my W7 laptop out to the shed and plugged into a generator. The 2413 would not sync with a 2456....
                            My experience has been that Insteon just doesn't work on a generator at all. I think that a big part of the reason is that almost all backup generators are approximately 61 Hz. I suspect that Insteon needs exactly 60 Hz to work right (the US version, anyway).
                            A better experiment would be to plug a power strip into a filterlinc. Then plug your PLM and one insteon device into the power strip and see if you can communicate with that device.

                            Almost any device with a switching power supply can cause problems. Also, I've found some GFIs tend to filter the Insteon signal out, as do many surge suppressors.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I have a powerline signal meter, so have been able to do a lot of numerical investigation in this area. Here are some of the things I've learned:

                              - Make sure the PLM is not plugged into the protected side (output) of a UPS. Powerline signals will NOT travel through a UPS in either direction. The PLM MUST be plugged directly into a wall outlet, not in the UPS. As said above, UPS's are designed to block noise. They see powerline signals as noise and kill them. You need to plug the UPS into a FilterLinc or it will drastically reduce your powerline signals and destroy system reliability.

                              - Computers and TV's are also bad signal killers. Put a filterlinc on all of them and you will see an instant improvement in Insteon reliability.

                              - In my experience, power bricks (wall warts) that are switching power supplies are also bad signal killers. Look at the input voltage rating that is always printed on the device. If it has a wide range, something like 100vac to 250vac, it is a switcher and likely killing PL signals. If it has a narrow range, something like 110vac to 125vac, it is usually not a switcher and typically won't affect PL signals. One notable exception is Apple iPhone and iPad warts that do NOT affect PL signals so don't worry about them.

                              - If you have a bunch of electronic equipment close together (example the computer room, or A/V room), plug it all into one power bar and plug the power bar into a filterlinc. That will protect it all with one filter, and prevent even small loads from affecting the signals. Be sure to keep any Insteon devices on the wall side of the filterlinc or they won't work.

                              - Most people go looking for problems near the devices that are having the most trouble. That's important, but its even more important to make sure the circuit that has the PLM is pristinely clean. To avoid hopping, the PLM signal has to get to the power panel, and then out to the rest of the house. If there are loads on the PLM circuit, the signal gets swallowed up before it even gets out to the panel. Since most of us have the PLM plugged into the computer, and since computers are one of the biggest offenders of powerline signal loading, most of us are sunk before we even start. So install a filter on everything in the computer room! I think Smarthome should insist that Filterlinc is sold with every PLM...

                              - I have an LG fridge with a small digital display on the front. I was surprised to find that it is a signal killer. So anything with electronics should be a suspect.

                              - Some surge protection power bars are signal killers all by themselves. I also have some that are perfect filterlincs! If you're using the trial and error method, be sure to use a NON-surge power bar until you prove your surge power bar is ok. The only way to tell for sure is with a meter.

                              - An X10 filter works just fine for Insteon, so if you have any of those kicking around, use them.

                              - A Filterlinc is rated for 10 amps. If you need 15 amps, this one works fine for Insteon: http://www.smarthome.com/act-af120-1...se-filter.html. It also has a user replaceable fuse.

                              - The electronic control board in my furnace was adding a small but significant load to the powerline signal. I wired in an inline filter to resolve that right inside the furnace.

                              - Low voltage lights with electronic transformers cause powerline noise that interferes with Insteon/X10 signals. This manifests itself in lights that will turn on, but not off (there is no line noise until the light is on). Also makes for weird problems where things work great sometimes and completely fall apart other times.

                              - Leviton 6287 DHC Noise Block filters work well for any fixed wiring device like low voltage lights or furnaces. They are small in size so can fit inside the light's electrical box. Note they need a neutral wire to work. Only rated for 5 amps, so if you are using it for something like a furnace, be sure you are under 5 amps. Or, since the powerline noise usually comes from the electronics, wire the filter to supply the electronics, but not the furnace motor. This is NOT a job for novices, so get help to do it properly and safely!!

                              - Filterlincs have an internal 10 amp fuse soldered onto the board. If you are good with a soldering iron, it is easily replaced rather throwing it all away.

                              - Insteon dual-band devices will work without powerline signals, but they work WAY better when they have both. So its worth finding and filtering all of the offenders.

                              - I installed a dedicated AC circuit for the PLM with a very short run to the main panels. That gets the PLM signal directly to the panel without any chance for stuff to interfere. This is likely overkill, but its a thought if you are capable of doing it yourself.

                              - My house is 6500 sq ft, has a 400 amp service with 4 main panels, and I have 119 Insteon devices. After installing half a dozen filterlincs, my system now works flawlessly.

                              - You can sort it out with trial and error, but it is WAY easier with a powerline signal meter. I've had an X10 Powerline Signal Analyzer for years and although pricey, it has paid for itself many times over. Here's the one I have: http://www.smarthome.com/x10-powerli...-analyzer.html. There may be better ones now available for Insteon, I don't know. However, Insteon is just a much more elaborate protocol using essentially the same powerline signal as X10. So for troubleshooting Insteon signal problems, an X10 meter works just fine. You can't dissect the Insteon data, but signal strength (or lack thereof) is shown loud and clear. If you're having signal related problems, spring the bucks for a meter and save yourself weeks of time and build a reliable system very quickly. Charge it to WAF... ; )

                              Hopefully that helps find your problem!..
                              Last edited by Burrington; February 7, 2016, 02:40 PM. Reason: Added a couple items...

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