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    upb started acting like x10 - YIKES

    So my UPB has been amazing since I began switching over some time ago. I still have four x10 switches, but I imagine they'll go away soon. Just a few days ago lights started going on and off randomly, like back in the ole' x10 days. This was the reason I have sunk literally thousands of dollars in "better" switches, and now I find myself in the situation of having to troubleshoot what seems like noise issues. arg! but like i said, been perfect up to this point. anyway, here's my info:
    whole house blocking filter/phase coupler installed at the panel
    using the com port version of the computer interface
    HS 2.2.0.66 version

    I woke up this morning, 4 upb lights were on that shoulding be.
    computer room - turned on at 2:59:04 am
    main bathroom - turned on at 2:59:04 am
    living room light - turned on at 2:59:04 am
    master bedroom light - don't know, but I'm guessing 2:59:04!!!!

    So i checked my hs log, NOTHING shows at that time.

    The first things that come to mind in terms of trouble shooting are either:
    my wife got a new dell laptop, was plugged in all night, even though not turned on.
    my boys replaced the lights in their room wth compact flourescents recently. i switched that switch to snap on/off. that light was off all night though.
    I thought it could have been a computer i was building, but it was off all night last night (plugged in, though)
    my mom is visiting, her laptop is was plugged in last night, but we were having these problems prior to her arrival.

    anyway, feeling pretty bummed that I have to be going through this process, cause I have UPB!!!!

    I'll put her laptop on a filter, see if that makes it go away, but ARG! you know?

    I just ran upstart this am and found zero noise at each device, signal strength between 30-50+ on one phase, and 8-19 on another.

    any suggestions?
    Plugins:
    BLLogMonitor, BLGarbage, BLBackup, BLOutGoingCalls, BLUps, BLRfid, JvEss, DooMotion, Applied Digital Ocelot, AC RF Processor, UltraMon, PJC AVR 430, UPB, Rain8net, DSC Panel, JRiver Media center, Windows Media Player, SageMediaCenter, SnevlCID, MCSTemperature.

    #2
    Unfortunately UPB is powerline based so while the protocol is a ton better than X10 it still uses the same old "roads" to get there. Have you added any new large appliances lately? Plugged in any new wall warts? A cordless drills power supply can cause problems with my UPB.
    -Rupp
    sigpic

    Comment


      #3
      i've been racking my brain all morning. the only thing I an come up with his her laptop. I'll filter it and see if the problem goes away
      Plugins:
      BLLogMonitor, BLGarbage, BLBackup, BLOutGoingCalls, BLUps, BLRfid, JvEss, DooMotion, Applied Digital Ocelot, AC RF Processor, UltraMon, PJC AVR 430, UPB, Rain8net, DSC Panel, JRiver Media center, Windows Media Player, SageMediaCenter, SnevlCID, MCSTemperature.

      Comment


        #4
        You say you have a "whole house blocking filter/phase coupler"? I didn't know they made them for UPB or what the point would be considering how UPB gets addressed. Looking at the disparity of the signals from one phase to the other, that's where i would start. Are you using a UPB phase coupler or one left over from X10 days?
        Marty
        ------
        XPpro SP3 /w HS Standard 2.5.0.80, HSTouch Server - 1.0.0.70, HSTouch Client 1.0.0.73 HSTouch Android - 1.0.0.2, HSTouch iPhone - 1.0.0.2
        Playing with HS3 a bit but it's just play at this point.

        Comment


          #5
          How do you know they came on at 2:59:04 am? What told you they came on at that time? Are these loads in a link together? Do you have any controllers other than HS?

          Dave

          Comment


            #6
            Nightwalker,
            It is a Leviton phase coupler/noise blocker left over from the x10 days. I also have one of those 220v dryer plugin type couplers that is specific for upb - I should have clarified that. Is it bad/good to have both those installed?

            my upb CIM is in the basement, the 220v coupler is in the garage above, the Leviton is on the other side of the garage, farthest from the CIM.

            Event5,
            I know the time because I have all my upb devices set to report status to HS. The rooms I mentioned were off at bed time, but on when I woke up at 4:45 am, so I looked at the device in HS and saw "last status change" time. This only worked, of course, for the lights I didn't manually turn of before checking, like the one that was on in the Master Bedroom and master bath.

            They are not on a link together (they all use 241, which is for local link, right?). I do not have any other UPB controller. I do have the cm11a and the w800. I'm usually pretty good at setting everything up to log any signals, so I don't think these lights were "told" to come on.

            thanks for the help guys. I've been VERY pleased with upb. this is literally the first problem I've had since setting it up over a year ago. Way better than x10, which is why this is weirding me out.
            Plugins:
            BLLogMonitor, BLGarbage, BLBackup, BLOutGoingCalls, BLUps, BLRfid, JvEss, DooMotion, Applied Digital Ocelot, AC RF Processor, UltraMon, PJC AVR 430, UPB, Rain8net, DSC Panel, JRiver Media center, Windows Media Player, SageMediaCenter, SnevlCID, MCSTemperature.

            Comment


              #7
              I figured that's what it was but wanted to make sure. It shouldn't bother it, i have a Lveiton coupler/repeater installed yet, as well as a HAI Phase coupler with no problems. My only concern is that blocker is designed to attenuate signals. It really shouldn't bother things for you though.

              I have a feeling that Event5 is on the right track. Signal problems with UPB are more likely to stop a device from getting turned on or off, not turn them on with a stray noise problem. The only problem i've had with UPB was one sunday six months ago everything just stopped working for about two hours. I never did track down that problem and havn't had it since. I suspect it was something coming from outside but it wasn't there long enough to track down.

              Originally posted by completelyhis View Post
              Nightwalker,
              It is a Leviton phase coupler/noise blocker left over from the x10 days. I also have one of those 220v dryer plugin type couplers that is specific for upb - I should have clarified that. Is it bad/good to have both those installed?

              my upb CIM is in the basement, the 220v coupler is in the garage above, the Leviton is on the other side of the garage, farthest from the CIM.

              Event5,
              I know the time because I have all my upb devices set to report status to HS. The rooms I mentioned were off at bed time, but on when I woke up at 4:45 am, so I looked at the device in HS and saw "last status change" time. This only worked, of course, for the lights I didn't manually turn of before checking, like the one that was on in the Master Bedroom and master bath.

              They are not on a link together (they all use 241, which is for local link, right?). I do not have any other UPB controller. I do have the cm11a and the w800. I'm usually pretty good at setting everything up to log any signals, so I don't think these lights were "told" to come on.

              thanks for the help guys. I've been VERY pleased with upb. this is literally the first problem I've had since setting it up over a year ago. Way better than x10, which is why this is weirding me out.
              Marty
              ------
              XPpro SP3 /w HS Standard 2.5.0.80, HSTouch Server - 1.0.0.70, HSTouch Client 1.0.0.73 HSTouch Android - 1.0.0.2, HSTouch iPhone - 1.0.0.2
              Playing with HS3 a bit but it's just play at this point.

              Comment


                #8
                I'd imagine that what you are seeing is something to do with the code that controls it.

                UPB just does not do that. It is a VERY complicated bi-directional protocol. I find it nearly impossible that 1 switch, let alone 4 turned on by noise.

                My first thing I would do to troubleshoot is disable all events associated with the switches that are being offensive.

                Let it sit a day and see if it breaks on you.

                --Dan
                Tasker, to a person who does Homeautomation...is like walking up to a Crack Treatment facility with a truck full of 3lb bags of crack. Then for each person that walks in and out smack them in the face with an open bag.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Signal problems with UPB are more likely to stop a device from getting turned on or off, not turn them on with a stray noise problem.
                  That's what I thought, which is why this is perplexing me. I'll monitor to see if there is a pattern that emerges as far as time/light/day. I seems very similar to the old x10 noise problems, though.

                  Are there settings I can change to make upb "stronger" against noise, like packet verification or something (not that I know what that is, cause I don't!).

                  I think some lights came on last night when they shouldn't have, related to a porch light event. I have the porch lights come on at sunset, and last night a couple of house lights randomly turned on along with the porch lights. some were upb, i think one of them may have been an old x10 switch still lingering. The porch lights are compact flourescent, don't know if that matters. i've read some stuff about them putting noise in the line, so is it possible that the noise may be bouncing around when they are on, causing lights to come on at 2:59:04 am?

                  just thinking....
                  Plugins:
                  BLLogMonitor, BLGarbage, BLBackup, BLOutGoingCalls, BLUps, BLRfid, JvEss, DooMotion, Applied Digital Ocelot, AC RF Processor, UltraMon, PJC AVR 430, UPB, Rain8net, DSC Panel, JRiver Media center, Windows Media Player, SageMediaCenter, SnevlCID, MCSTemperature.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Dan,
                    Wouldn't there have been anything in the log, if HS thought the lights were supposed to be on? there was nothing in the log at that time.
                    Plugins:
                    BLLogMonitor, BLGarbage, BLBackup, BLOutGoingCalls, BLUps, BLRfid, JvEss, DooMotion, Applied Digital Ocelot, AC RF Processor, UltraMon, PJC AVR 430, UPB, Rain8net, DSC Panel, JRiver Media center, Windows Media Player, SageMediaCenter, SnevlCID, MCSTemperature.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Gen2 switches are designed to limit the effects of noise, but i can't say i've had any problems with the Gen1 switches, Except for that one time i talked about above. Before or since they've just worked as expected with no fuss. These days i look for things to automate, instead of fine tuning the system for better performance of what i already have.

                      You can try turning on the debug mode in the UPB plugin and see if that gives you any more info. It's quite the read though, so be prepared.

                      Originally posted by completelyhis View Post
                      That's what I thought, which is why this is perplexing me. I'll monitor to see if there is a pattern that emerges as far as time/light/day. I seems very similar to the old x10 noise problems, though.

                      Are there settings I can change to make upb "stronger" against noise, like packet verification or something (not that I know what that is, cause I don't!).

                      I think some lights came on last night when they shouldn't have, related to a porch light event. I have the porch lights come on at sunset, and last night a couple of house lights randomly turned on along with the porch lights. some were upb, i think one of them may have been an old x10 switch still lingering. The porch lights are compact flourescent, don't know if that matters. i've read some stuff about them putting noise in the line, so is it possible that the noise may be bouncing around when they are on, causing lights to come on at 2:59:04 am?

                      just thinking....
                      Marty
                      ------
                      XPpro SP3 /w HS Standard 2.5.0.80, HSTouch Server - 1.0.0.70, HSTouch Client 1.0.0.73 HSTouch Android - 1.0.0.2, HSTouch iPhone - 1.0.0.2
                      Playing with HS3 a bit but it's just play at this point.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by completelyhis View Post
                        Dan,
                        Wouldn't there have been anything in the log, if HS thought the lights were supposed to be on? there was nothing in the log at that time.
                        What your saying makes me think it's more a link that is being triggered as opposed to a HS event. It may be worth checking upstart and seeing what links are set for these switches to respond to.

                        Personally i don't use a lot of links, I prefer to let HS manage things. Except for a all on/off' '1st floor on/off' '2nd floor on/off' and a 'outside lights on/off' i really don't use links much. At least that way my switches are not taking commands from other than homeseer and when something goes on or off i know why. So far i've been able to trace any of those to operator error.
                        Marty
                        ------
                        XPpro SP3 /w HS Standard 2.5.0.80, HSTouch Server - 1.0.0.70, HSTouch Client 1.0.0.73 HSTouch Android - 1.0.0.2, HSTouch iPhone - 1.0.0.2
                        Playing with HS3 a bit but it's just play at this point.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I have never seen a UPB light come on because of noise. The communications are CRC checked so it would be extremely unlikely that noise could fake a command and get the CRC for that command correct as well. A power surge can cause the Triac control circuit to go on on rare occasions, but usually the switch won't "think" that is is on when this happens. Did the LED change colors to indicate that the light was on? In UPB the LED is software controlled and not part of the load control circuit.

                          Does anything at all happen at that time of night?

                          Jon




                          Originally posted by nightwalker View Post
                          What your saying makes me think it's more a link that is being triggered as opposed to a HS event. It may be worth checking upstart and seeing what links are set for these switches to respond to.

                          Personally i don't use a lot of links, I prefer to let HS manage things. Except for a all on/off' '1st floor on/off' '2nd floor on/off' and a 'outside lights on/off' i really don't use links much. At least that way my switches are not taking commands from other than homeseer and when something goes on or off i know why. So far i've been able to trace any of those to operator error.
                          Jon Ort
                          JonOrt@The--Orts.com
                          (Remove the dashes in the address, spam is getting out of hand)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            From completly's response, I agree about the link thing. I find Links funny. Once they are setup, they work, however they are quite challenging to setup.

                            Completly,

                            Yes, I think something WOULD have to have showed up...unless you were running a script (as I stated). If the script ran, you would only have record that the script ran. You would not have any log data showing that the script turned on a bunch of lights. (maybe?? I'd verify...but my walls for my new house just showed up...so, I've got another few months before I get my HS server back up and running).

                            --Dan
                            Tasker, to a person who does Homeautomation...is like walking up to a Crack Treatment facility with a truck full of 3lb bags of crack. Then for each person that walks in and out smack them in the face with an open bag.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Dan,
                              Glad to see your new place is coming along. Hopefully the move has/is going well for you. drop me an email some time, I don't see you online much anymore!

                              I'll check my log for scripts that may run, esp on a delay. not any i can think of that affect these lights, but i'll check to make sure.

                              Jon,
                              I didn't think to look at the LEDs, so I don't know what color they were. i'll look to see next time there is an issue. I don't think it would be a power surge, though, cause its been happening a lot, and there isnt' any weather/construction that would normally be associated with it.

                              Jon/nightwalker,
                              I'll check upstart and see if there are any links that may be "crossed." I did cahnge some links around when the boys put CF bulbs in their room, but there would still need to be something that would fire that link, and nothing I can think of would do that at 3am! I'll also turn on the debug mode for the plugin...I'll only do it at night, so it doesn't clog things up too much.

                              Thanks for all the help, guys!

                              Ian
                              Plugins:
                              BLLogMonitor, BLGarbage, BLBackup, BLOutGoingCalls, BLUps, BLRfid, JvEss, DooMotion, Applied Digital Ocelot, AC RF Processor, UltraMon, PJC AVR 430, UPB, Rain8net, DSC Panel, JRiver Media center, Windows Media Player, SageMediaCenter, SnevlCID, MCSTemperature.

                              Comment

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