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  • Richard
    replied
    Further down the road....

    Could this work for my needs?

    I am looking at configuring the upstart file so the locations of my devices fall into 3 locations, (not UPB Device Link) location.

    interior
    outdoor
    holiday

    How can I do this?

    That way when HS reads the config file.... no changes are to be made that messes up the UPB plugin.
    Hope this is what was explained?

    (I am not using HS Touch) just Reg. HS web page. All my other devices can be moved and reorganized to any location but UPB will not work with any changes when ther are on HS side. (that should be locked sine the device will not be able to be controlled if you change this parameter)

    Thanks.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Richard; December 12, 2010, 02:46 PM.

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  • Pete
    replied
    I already have an SA in the fuse panel phase coupler. I am trying a PCS in the fuse panel coupler to see if it improves my opposite phase signals. All my same side as PIM signals are decent but all my opposite phase of PIM signals are much lower.

    I changed my HS UPB locations and all of my UBP devices work and receive status the same as when they were in the unique locations. I wonder though if I shutdown HS and reboot it if they'll go back by reading the UPB Upstart UPE file.

    What's unique about UPB is the ability to control your lighting via links that you can assign to a group of devices. If you want you can assign a unique on and off link to only one device. My nightly 2nd floor lighting is set to one link at 30%. This one link turns on every bedroom lamp. An after midnight security event turns on only one device (full brightness) and then turns it off. (here I am not using a link).

    my example the 2 follow the same 1 device?
    Two (2) links can follow one device or two devices can follow one link. When I physically set the brightness on my office lamp via the switch to 20% I only see this switch going to 20% on Upstart, Homeseer or the HAI OPII; nothing else. If I program the switch with double taps to turn on a link (say 30%); this link will change all of the light switches assigned to it.

    I've attached an Upstart configuration guide. I am not sure if you've had a look at this yet. It does explain many of the UPB methodologies relating to UPB links and devices.

    Shutdown and restarted HS a few times tonight and did notice that whenever the UPB plugin starts and reads the UPE file it creates location/device for each UPB device.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Pete; October 7, 2010, 11:36 PM.

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  • Richard
    replied
    Device Type: UPB Device Link

    Thank you for your information, nightwalker, I might have been a bit snappy, sorry if I came off that way.

    Pete I will read and digest your info. I have already read it 3 times.....
    and will see if I can follow the explaination. I am confused with the principle that the device code such as " &9 " or my " &23 " are somehow not the point of control of the UPB plugin. ( the situation I explained earlier that the &23 is doing what the &9 is set to) so this really throws my understanding off.

    Is there another point of control here?

    You can though create 2 virtual devices and utilize the primary device to change the status on the other two devices via an event which is triggered by the first device changing. This would allow the three UPB device views. You can also create a unique link for each device giving it a unique name but doing the same thing. So you could have an "off" link common to all three, "on" link common to all three, then a 30% link to unique devices (calling it "D130", "D230", "D330"). Having the ability to utilize links and devices is beneficial. I can and see status on HS an individual switch hitting the up rocker to 60% or turning it down to 10%. I have events when turn on links (number of devices) and events unique to one device setup. So my HAI OPII panel has the evening events (based on links) and a bunch of unique events (based on devices).
    this seems to be a key to my needs. I will try this out.

    But HS web page, allows changes to locations that fowl up the operation from what I see. What is happening here. Can some one take 2 devices and change 1 of the locations and see if like my example the 2 follow the same 1 device? - not sure which change is the key here though.

    I have an SA phase coupler in place and this week
    Are you using a noise attentuation type coupler ( in phase type ) to boot signal , what model? I have the SA that plugs in at dryer outlet but I also need a good X10 coupler & repeater.

    I will try out some of the ideas and look back here,
    ....to be continued thanks again.

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  • Pete
    replied
    How can you have a device code of &9 appear on 3 different location views?
    Can you configure that in upstart?
    &9 location = Interior
    &9 location = 1st Floor
    &9 location = Entry Lights
    I am not really doing any events via HS with UPB and following an HAI HLC numbering matrix. For your &9 location if it was defined as a link; and the devices above included said defined link then the link would cover the three devices.

    I have my rocker switches programed to send status links. (transmit part) and very basic on the receive part with just 3 links; on, off and 30%. For one switch then I see the actual device status and the link status. What I have seen posted is that the link control is faster than the device control. Something that the link control is inter-device versus the device control. IE: A reflex analogy (hand or knee reflex takes a shorter path - tap on the kneecap and it "automatically bounces" by doing a round trip in the spinal cord, concurrently reporting the motion to your brain. A proactive motion of your knee is guided by your brain - you tell your knee to move and it moves is slower.)

    When HS reads the UPB Upstart UPE file it creates one Link group and a different location group for each switch. I personally put all of the HS created UPB devices in one group (move them after HS created them). My one group has all the UPB links and devices.

    I don't believe that HS allows me to replicate the same device in three different location views. You can though create 2 virtual devices and utilize the primary device to change the status on the other two devices via an event which is triggered by the first device changing. This would allow the three UPB device views. You can also create a unique link for each device giving it a unique name but doing the same thing. So you could have an "off" link common to all three, "on" link common to all three, then a 30% link to unique devices (calling it "D130", "D230", "D330"). Having the ability to utilize links and devices is beneficial. I can and see status on HS an individual switch hitting the up rocker to 60% or turning it down to 10%. I have events when turn on links (number of devices) and events unique to one device setup. So my HAI OPII panel has the evening events (based on links) and a bunch of unique events (based on devices).

    Its been a learning experience for me as I've had X10 in place for many years now. Sometimes I change / modify my upstart file 3-4 times in a day. I always save the export just a "current.upe". I have three UPB Pims in place; one connected to the HS box, another to the HAI OPII and a third floating PIM. Typically make the adjustments with Upstart on the floating PIM; then pause UPB on HS and restart to create the newest devices and finally whatever renumbers / modification of events on the HAI OPII panel (It can be time consuming if the variables change). I've also been monitoring the signal strengths of the UPB devices watching the in wall switched UPB devices and the appliance/light modules I've started to add. I have an SA phase coupler in place and this week giving the PCS coupler a try to see if I getting higher signal strengths on the opposite to PIM phase UPB switches.
    Last edited by Pete; October 6, 2010, 12:18 PM.

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  • nightwalker
    replied
    Originally posted by Richard View Post
    there is so much more to this than what you replied to.... did you read my note?

    Thought I had responded but I'll try again.

    the location part, I got, but the devices are some how being triggered not by device code. &9 triggers &23 in my testing

    I just sent a UPB command to dim &9 to 50% and the &23 also followed to 50%.

    The only way this could happen is if the upb data upe file and HomeSeer do not match or if you're somehow using a link to send a command that is being recieved by both switchs as programmed in upstart.

    It is not just about location. Seems that if location is changed (HST might want to look at that) the devices are not addressed correctly.

    Did you see my what if = I have some sprinkler devices and pool devices that are UPB (setting up now) so if someone changes "location to what ever" the pool pump could blink? "

    You keep talking about changing locations, don't, upstart sets the location only. If you change in things will get screwy on you.

    NW Perhaps you do not think that really is a concern? but I do. Changing a location in upstart appears to be the only way to get HS not to have a problem. that is a work around.

    I have a feeling that you are treating UPB the same as X10, it's not and is far different. With X10 you can change names and locations at will, even put in duplicate devices anywhere you like. With UPB you cannot. There is one device, the physicial device. Everything else is controlled either via links or events.

    How can you have a device code of &9 appear on 3 different location views?
    Can you configure that in upstart?

    No, a device can only be in one location.

    &9 location = Interior
    &9 location = 1st Floor
    &9 location = Entry Lights

    ?

    You really can't with the standard HomeSeer web views. In order to do this you would need to use another interface that is meant to look pretty and be infinitely configurable instead of being a set of setup/configuration screens. There are many of different types around that would allow this. Something as simple as Jon00s quickview pages to his full on HTML interface, there are others as well. Also there are choices like HSTouch or Main Lobby.

    Hope you can see how this plugin is used in a more involved manner that what appears to be your "type of use" ? Opened a HST bug question.

    I do see but you're trying to make the Plug-in more than it can be. The plug-in is a simple tie between UPB programmed switches and links and giving HomeSeer the ability to trigger those so the switches will respond. That's all it is and all it can be since the programming of UPB is done at the switches themselves not the plug-in or in HomeSeer. It's only a gateway between UPB and HomeSeer.

    Perhaps I am not explaining it all as well as I could and that's part of the problem, I never was a very good teacher.

    Thanks for the direction.
    If any of you other UPB users want to jump in here that would be just fine with me. Perhaps a different angle of explanation would help things along.

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  • Richard
    replied
    UPB cross triggering.

    there is so much more to this than what you replied to.... did you read my note?

    the location part, I got, but the devices are some how being triggered not by device code. &9 triggers &23 in my testing

    I just sent a UPB command to dim &9 to 50% and the &23 also followed to 50%.

    It is not just about location. Seems that if location is changed (HST might want to look at that) the devices are not addressed correctly.

    Did you see my what if = I have some sprinkler devices and pool devices that are UPB (setting up now) so if someone changes "location to what ever" the pool pump could blink? "

    NW Perhaps you do not think that really is a concern? but I do. Changing a location in upstart appears to be the only way to get HS not to have a problem. that is a work around.

    How can you have a device code of &9 appear on 3 different location views?
    Can you configure that in upstart?

    &9 location = Interior
    &9 location = 1st Floor
    &9 location = Entry Lights

    ?

    Hope you can see how this plugin is used in a more involved manner that what appears to be your "type of use" ? Opened a HST bug question.

    Thanks for the direction.

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  • nightwalker
    replied
    Originally posted by Richard View Post
    OK only use exported upstart upe file . HS should not be able to change
    this "dependent data" I know ... tell HST do they know that?

    They should but UPB is a little different than X10, Zwave, etc in that it's wholly dependant on what comes from upstart when you program the switch itself. You can change anything you like with HomeSeer but at the next reboot it all goes back to what the upe file says is there.

    Can you change the location to interior in the upstart file so it exists on HS's web page with location = interior? that way I do not have interior devices I want to see only showing up on a UPB device links location page or something that makes little sense?

    I don't see why you can't name a location "interior" in upstart. I've matched my rooms in upstart to my rooms in HomeSeer so everything all comes out together when I'm looking at a room on the HomeSeer webpage.

    How do you get a device to display on the web page by different location?

    I can't say, I never tried it. Being a HSTouch user that never mattered to me.

    (I do not want my outside flood lights showing on a location that is "UPB Device Link"


    So a few questions based on what I saw.

    From what I did,
    The 1 location that I changed, makes the UPB plugin all mixed up with a location changes?

    so CROSS X TALK devices are addressed even though event logs shows &9 Interior Kitchen Lamp UPB (&9) Value set to 16

    and &23 not addressed?

    From what i'm reading here I'd say yes.

    here is my event log,

    = 10/5/2010 10:46:18 AM Device Control Device: Interior Kitchen Lamp UPB (&9) Value set to 16
    10/5/2010 10:46:18 AM UPB PIM<--Sending 8814F602FF253C0C to PIM (Try # 1)
    10/5/2010 10:46:18 AM UPB Waiting for ACK/NAK from PIM

    and that device is controlling &23 ? and blinking it.


    Is this a known problem?

    Seems to make HS not friendly to UPB devices. Are the device codes used to address a UPB device?

    The Device code is only used from within HomeSeer, after that it's a conversion to the UPB programming code that is setup in upstart. That's what the plug-in does and why things get scrambled when you change a name or location in HomeSeer

    I have some sprinkler devices and pool devices that are UPB (setting up now)
    so if someone changes "location or what ever" the pool pump could blink?
    (you got to love that)

    I like UPB but this is a bit of a mess.

    and finally what is the string - Sending 8814F602FF253C0C

    That's the plug-in sending a string that the switch will reconize, it's done internally.

    I noticed when the wrong blinking device is sent a string to deactivate it stops blinking - but IF I send the &9 again to blink - it &23 starts blink again.

    Funny conditions or cross controlling in Plugin?
    It sounds like you're making it harder on yourself than it needs to be. If you name your location the same in HomeSeer and in upstart the same things work out well. For example, if you have a UPB device lamp in the living room and you also have a X10 device ceiling fan in the living room as well as a Zwave floor lamp in the living room if you name all the locations as "living room" they will all show up on the HomeSeer status pages in the location "living room"

    UPB links do not have a location really. These are things that get run via events or by other switches and are a programming link that is sent out, they are not devices so there is no location.

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  • Richard
    replied
    Opened a bug question to HST for the cross control of other devices questions.

    FYI,

    Also opened a HST bug report to look at the multiple devices controlled by 1 device change = &9 set to BLINK .

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  • Richard
    replied
    further down the road.

    Thanks for the reply...

    OK only use exported upstart upe file . HS should not be able to change
    this "dependent data" I know ... tell HST do they know that?

    Can you change the location to interior in the upstart file so it exists on HS's web page with location = interior? that way I do not have interior devices I want to see only showing up on a UPB device links location page or something that makes little sense?

    How do you get a device to display on the web page by different location?

    (I do not want my outside flood lights showing on a location that is "UPB Device Link"


    So a few questions based on what I saw.

    From what I did,
    The 1 location that I changed, makes the UPB plugin all mixed up with a location changes?

    so CROSS X TALK devices are addressed even though event logs shows &9 Interior Kitchen Lamp UPB (&9) Value set to 16

    and &23 not addressed?

    here is my event log,

    = 10/5/2010 10:46:18 AM Device Control Device: Interior Kitchen Lamp UPB (&9) Value set to 16
    10/5/2010 10:46:18 AM UPB PIM<--Sending 8814F602FF253C0C to PIM (Try # 1)
    10/5/2010 10:46:18 AM UPB Waiting for ACK/NAK from PIM

    and that device is controlling &23 ? and blinking it.


    Is this a known problem?

    Seems to make HS not friendly to UPB devices. Are the device codes used to address a UPB device?

    I have some sprinkler devices and pool devices that are UPB (setting up now)
    so if someone changes "location or what ever" the pool pump could blink?
    (you got to love that)

    I like UPB but this is a bit of a mess.

    and finally what is the string - Sending 8814F602FF253C0C

    I noticed when the wrong blinking device is sent a string to deactivate it stops blinking - but IF I send the &9 again to blink - it &23 starts blink again.

    Funny conditions or cross controlling in Plugin?

    Leave a comment:


  • nightwalker
    replied
    I'm still not totally clear on what you're trying to do but it seems you are still using HomeSeer to change names and or locations of UPB devices. This can't be done as it will only confuse your system since the exported upstart upe file and HomeSeer no longer match. Only upstart can change anything to do with UPB devices.

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  • Richard
    replied
    further down the road.

    I tested and found this problem that might lead to the issue/

    I have 2 UPB devices each has a UPB code as;

    UPB Device Link Kitchen Lamp UPB (&9)

    UPB Device Link Great Room Tall Lamp (&23)


    Next I change the location of 1 device &9 to have it show up on my interior web page

    Interior Kitchen Lamp UPB &9 UPB Device Link Today 10:46:18 AM

    with the other device &23 set to

    Deactivate UPB Device Link Great Room Tall Lamp &23 UPB Device Link Today 10:46:00 AM

    My test,
    Then when I set the &9 device to blink = i get both lights blink.... It appears the the Plugin gets mixed up? and triggers 2 lights with different codes?


    I am watching the &9 device with changed location to interior location , blink

    and also trigger the &23 device set to the default location of UPB Device Link = it's blinking.

    see attached screen shot of devices from web page.


    10/5/2010 10:45:47 AM Device Control Device: UPB Device Link Great Room Tall Lamp (&23) Value set to 15
    10/5/2010 10:45:47 AM UPB PIM<--Sending 8814F60CFF225AE7 to PIM (Try # 1)
    10/5/2010 10:45:48 AM UPB Waiting for ACK/NAK from PIM
    10/5/2010 10:46:00 AM Device Control Device: UPB Device Link Great Room Tall Lamp (&23) Value set to 2
    10/5/2010 10:46:00 AM UPB PIM<--Sending 8914F60CFF21FFFF43 to PIM (Try # 1)
    10/5/2010 10:46:00 AM UPB Waiting for ACK/NAK from PIM
    10/5/2010 10:46:15 AM Device Control Device: Interior Kitchen Lamp UPB (&9) Value set to 2
    10/5/2010 10:46:15 AM UPB PIM<--Sending 8914F602FF21FFFF4D to PIM (Try # 1)
    10/5/2010 10:46:15 AM UPB Waiting for ACK/NAK from PIM
    10/5/2010 10:46:18 AM Device Control Device: Interior Kitchen Lamp UPB (&9) Value set to 16
    10/5/2010 10:46:18 AM UPB PIM<--Sending 8814F602FF253C0C to PIM (Try # 1)
    10/5/2010 10:46:18 AM UPB Waiting for ACK/NAK from PIM

    .... going back to my original questions, I want devices to be on different web views such as interior, outside, 2nd floor but changing the location either stops them from working of in my last test 1 set to blink also blinks others???

    Help! what is going on. What addition information or config can I pass along? please go ahead and try and look at the event logs too.
    Attached Files

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  • nightwalker
    replied
    I'm still not totally clear about your project however you could alway use a virtual device with an event or script to have the virtual follow the original or vice versa. There also isn't anything stopping you from making a new device type and calling it anything you want. You of course would not be able to give it a UPB device code so, it would really only be a virtual as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Richard
    replied
    UPB Links Problems - Creating One

    Thanks for your help, I am trying to create a copy of a device with a different location.

    The original device is set to a location Fish Tank, now I want the same
    device - a copy that has a HS location (a copy) to Interior.

    ..."I create duplicate devices with different locations but with the correct "device type" so I can view from selected different screens...."

    I tried to create a new device with a different location and ran into the "can not select the UPB link for the type of devices list.

    Leave a comment:


  • nightwalker
    replied
    I'm sure I'm not explaining this right but, you will never see that device type in the HS device list. Since it is not handled by HS directly. The plug-in is what handles device creation based on what it reads from the upstart file. The only way to create a UPB device or link is through upstart.

    Maybe if you specify what you're trying to accomplish I or someone even better will be able to suggest ways that you can get there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Richard
    replied
    Device Type: UPB Load/Light Controller &quot; is not a choice in the list. - yet

    The " Device Type: UPB Load/Light Controller " is not a choice in the list.

    It exists in upstart and was exported as well as links.... but as a device type in not showing up in list in HS.

    It's not there!

    Am I missing a step?

    ********************

    The existing one that is there- for 2 Lights.



    Name Code Type Last Change
    On Fish Tank Actinic Lights (4 UPB Load/Light Controller Today 7:35:36 PM



    On Fish Tank White Lights (5 UPB Load/Light Controller Today 7:35:36 PM


    - the " Device Type: UPB Load/Light Controller " are dimmed and not changeable values. The new device I am trying to create with a UPB link code / value is not in the list. Not a device type to select from drop down list?

    Last edited by Richard; August 7, 2010, 09:12 PM.

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