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  • GetUpload X10 error...

    Yesterday I started migrating more of my HS2 (RF) X10 devices over to HS3. I am using a dated CM11a powerline interface on HS3 (Ti103 on HS2). Couple days ago, I upgraded my x10 plugin to V3.0.0.40 (which solved numerous x10 issues BTW).

    Now, I am periodically getting the error:
    Feb-09 10:30:31 AM X10 ERROR error in GetUpload :Argument 'Length' must be greater or equal to zero.

    Further, on occasion I will get:
    Feb-09 10:14:53 AM X10 WARNING CM11A Possible no response to send data, still waiting
    The CM11/HS3/X10 seems to recover from this warning (without issues).

    X10 via the CM11a continues to work (fine AFIK) after the GetUpload x10 error. In searching the MB I found a couple threads that seemed to suspect the CM11a as the culprit, but nothing definitive.

    Is this a known plugin error and/or does anyone have any suggestions?

    Thanks
    Gary

    HS2 & HS2Touch
    HS2 Speaker
    HS3 Speaker
    Current Date/Time: 2/9/2017 10:42:55 AM
    HomeSeer Version: HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.298
    Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center - Work Station
    System Uptime: 1 Day 20 Hours 5 Minutes 20 Seconds
    IP Address: 192.168...
    Number of Devices: 116
    Number of Events: 23
    Available Threads: 800

    Enabled Plug-Ins
    2.0.44.0: BLOnkyo
    3.0.0.75: HSTouch Server
    30.0.0.33: RFXCOM
    3.0.6132.16975: UltraGCIR3
    3.0.0.40: X10

  • #2
    Hi Gary,

    The "X10 ERROR error in GetUpload :Argument 'Length' must be greater or equal to zero." means that the plugin did not receive any data from the CM11A while trying to retrieve the data in the CM11A receive buffer. (CM11A told the plugin it had data but did not respond with the data when queried.)

    The "X10 WARNING CM11A Possible no response to send data" error means that the plugin has sent data to the CM11A to be transmitted and is expecting an 'acknowledge' response from the CM11A, but has not received the ack within a reasonable amount of time.

    Both of these errors point to an unreliable RS232 communication channel and the plugin is having difficulty communicating reliably with the X10 interface hardware (CM11A in your case). The most common cause of this is the use of inexpensive USB to RS-232 adapters, and in fact there are a number of discussions on the board about many of these being problematic under Win8 & up. They may have worked just fine under WinXP but unfortunately no longer.

    My initial suggestion is to use a hardware RS232 port on your system if available to see if this resolves the issues. Also be sure that the cable run from your PC to the CM11A is under 10 feet and not running in parallel with any other cables - especially power cables. If you don't have a hardware RS232 port on your PC then I'd recommend looking for a used Edgeport device (I've used the Edgeport/8 for years without any issues) as they are quite expensive new. Ebay may be your friend for this (I just checked Ebay and there are a bunch of them available in the $20-$50 range).

    Please let us know what happens!
    Last edited by mfisher; February 15th, 2017, 10:41 AM.
    Best regards,
    -Mark-

    If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
    Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

    Comment


    • #3
      Quick Response!!

      Thanks much mark the insight is greatly appreciated.

      Also be sure that the cable run from your PC to the CM11A is under 10 feet and not running in parallel with any other cables - especially power cables.
      It use the RJ11/12 like cable that came with the CM11. It doesnt look like its is any longer than 10'. Interesting that EMI may be suspect. My CM11 sits on top of my bank of UPS's, but no parallel cables. I will try rerouting things to see if that makes any difference.

      If you don't have a hardware RS232 port on your PC then I'd recommend looking for a used Edgeport device
      Well, I don't have a hardware RS232 on my MB, but I do have three Edgeports ( 2 4-port, 1 8-port) of varying ages. I did switch the CM11a over from port 18 to port 4 on another edgeport. Unfortunately, that didnt resolve the GetUpload error, nor the Warning error. The plan is/was to (eventually) move all my X10 off HS2 and then use the Ti103 on HS3 and retire the CM11a. I may have to look into a used 103.

      If anything comes to mind, let me know.

      Thanks
      Gary

      Comment


      • #4
        No Joy...

        Mark, the saga continues. I ordered a used Ti103 off ebay to see if I could get rid of the errors and/or better reliability. Unfortunately, It seems the Ti103's do not work as well for me on HS3 as do the CM11a. While the CM11 gives me errors, at least to this point most of the x10 goes/comes through. Not true with the Ti103's. Odd too, since my original 103 works, for the most part, perfect on HS2. I tried both 103's on HS3 and even moved the recent one to a wall socket outside my wiring closet.

        I am sending you a PM and would like to discuss this further via email please.

        Thanks
        Gary

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kbevo View Post
          Thanks much mark the insight is greatly appreciated.



          It use the RJ11/12 like cable that came with the CM11. It doesnt look like its is any longer than 10'. Interesting that EMI may be suspect. My CM11 sits on top of my bank of UPS's, but no parallel cables. I will try rerouting things to see if that makes any difference.



          Well, I don't have a hardware RS232 on my MB, but I do have three Edgeports ( 2 4-port, 1 8-port) of varying ages. I did switch the CM11a over from port 18 to port 4 on another edgeport. Unfortunately, that didnt resolve the GetUpload error, nor the Warning error. The plan is/was to (eventually) move all my X10 off HS2 and then use the Ti103 on HS3 and retire the CM11a. I may have to look into a used 103.

          If anything comes to mind, let me know.

          Thanks
          Gary
          Hi Gary,

          Ok, good that you are using Edgeports for RS232 comms!

          Before we go any further let's get some more information.
          1) Please turn on 'Developer Mode' on the Manage Plugins page so that we get plugin debug info into the HS3 log.
          2) Attach your CM11A, setup the plugin for the CM11A and restart HS.
          3) Once booted try controlling an X10 device from HS3 (to see how the plugin handles the send request).
          4) Then send an X10 command on the power line using a mini controller or other X10 device that transmits (to see how the plugin handles received X10 traffic).
          5) Post the relevant plugin startup and event sections of the log here so we can review them.

          Then repeat the above steps with your Ti103 and post the results.

          Also...
          • Are you running HS2 and HS3 on the same machine?
          • Have you been able to measure the X10 noise levels in your environment?
          • Your statement about "My CM11 sits on top of my bank of UPS's" is a bit concerning as UPS devices are notorious X10 "signal suckers" and can have disastrous effects on X10 performance. You might try using a heavy duty extension cord to "move" your CM11A & Ti103 to a different circuit, preferably one near your electrical panel. You might also try physically separating the interface from any other electronic/electrical equipment to see if something is happening there.
          • Note that plugging more than one X10 interface (CM11A or Ti103) into the same outlet (or same circuit) can seriously degrade your X10 performance. All X10 transmitters are "signal suckers."


          Please post your log info and let's see what we can find!
          Best regards,
          -Mark-

          If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
          Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mfisher View Post
            Before we go any further let's get some more information...
            Ok, sounds good, thanks for you feedback. Let me answer your questions first. The logs may take a while longer.

            [*]Are you running HS2 and HS3 on the same machine?
            Yes.

            [*]Have you been able to measure the X10 noise levels in your environment?
            Yes. I have a ACT AT004 (x10) multi-tester. Most outlets are around 55mv noise which seems to provide good x10 reliability. X10 signals in my house do not seem to become unreliable until noise get >100mv. I have several x10 filters on devices that have proved to produce high noise levels. This usually shows when specific x10 devices start having issues. My HS3 Ti103 issues are random, and as mentioned, those same devices work well on HS2.

            [*]Your statement about "My CM11 sits on top of my bank of UPS's" is a bit concerning as UPS devices are notorious X10 "signal suckers" and can have disastrous effects on X10 performance. You might try using a heavy duty extension cord to "move" your CM11A & Ti103 to a different circuit, preferably one near your electrical panel. You might also try physically separating the interface from any other electronic/electrical equipment to see if something is happening there.
            Well I did move the CM11 off the top of the UPS's. I have two dedicated circuits in my wiring closet (i.e. they each go to the breaker box, to they're own breaker). I have one UPS plugged into each circuit. I am seeing noise levels around 85mv where I have plugged in the CM11a and recent Ti103. My original 103 is plugged into the other circuit, although that does not seem to make any difference to HS3, since reliability is bad when using either 103 on either circuit. Further, I did try the recent 103 on another circuit (with less noise). No joy! I have not tried the recent 103 on HS2 (TTD, I guess).

            [*]Note that plugging more than one X10 interface (CM11A or Ti103) into the same outlet (or same circuit) can seriously degrade your X10 performance. All X10 transmitters are "signal suckers."
            Yes, I understand. See #3 above. The two interfaces are never on the same circuits.

            I will get you the logs shortly, and thanks again.

            Gary

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, here it is...

              Mark, attached is what I believe to be the log information you requested. I got lots of "DEBUG" information in Developer Mode for the CM11a, but did not for the Ti103. Seems strange to me, and I can't see how the 103 stuff will be helpful, but maybe it will. I am sure I was in Developer Mode. I reran the 103 tests 3 times to be sure. Let me know what you think.

              Thanks
              Gary
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kbevo View Post
                I have a ACT AT004 (x10) multi-tester. Most outlets are around 55mv noise which seems to provide good x10 reliability. X10 signals in my house do not seem to become unreliable until noise get >100mv. I have several x10 filters on devices that have proved to produce high noise levels. This usually shows when specific x10 devices start having issues. My HS3 Ti103 issues are random, and as mentioned, those same devices work well on HS2.
                Its great that you have a signal meter and can measure signal and noise levels in your environment! I am using a Ti103 plugged into an outlet adjacent to my main panel, and through the copious use of X10 filters I have managed to get my noise levels down to between 6-9mV, with the lowest signal strength from a dimmer located in the "worst" outlet in my system being 50mV when measured at the Ti. This provides an X10 environment with 99% reliability.

                Well I did move the CM11 off the top of the UPS's. I have two dedicated circuits in my wiring closet (i.e. they each go to the breaker box, to they're own breaker). I have one UPS plugged into each circuit. I am seeing noise levels around 85mv where I have plugged in the CM11a and recent Ti103. My original 103 is plugged into the other circuit, although that does not seem to make any difference to HS3, since reliability is bad when using either 103 on either circuit. Further, I did try the recent 103 on another circuit (with less noise). No joy! I have not tried the recent 103 on HS2 (TTD, I guess).
                I would be curious to understand the signal levels you are getting at those locations when receiving transmissions from your most distant X10 transmitters. For good reliability, you want as much 'distance' between the noise floor and the real signals as possible. BTW, are your UPSs plugged into noise filters?

                Yes, I understand. See #3 above. The two interfaces are never on the same circuits.
                Even when located on separate circuits any X10 transmitter can degrade signal levels in the entire system.

                Thanks for the log file, I will try to review it this weekend. As for the amount of detail in the log for the Ti103, you'll want to enable all 5 of the logging features on the X10 plugin setup page (Manage Plugins, click on 'X10'):
                • Log raw inbound com data to HomeSeer log
                • Log inbound dequeue processing
                • Log outbound dequeue processing
                • Log outbound X10 commands from HomeSeer
                • Log Plugin callbacks into HomeSeer
                The Ti plugin provides much more detail than the CM11A so be sure to turn this off after you finish logging.
                Best regards,
                -Mark-

                If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
                Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mfisher View Post
                  Thanks for the log file, I will try to review it this weekend. As for the amount of detail in the log for the Ti103, you'll want to enable all 5 of the logging features on the X10 plugin setup page (Manage Plugins, click on 'X10'):
                  • Log raw inbound com data to HomeSeer log
                  • Log inbound dequeue processing
                  • Log outbound dequeue processing
                  • Log outbound X10 commands from HomeSeer
                  • Log Plugin callbacks into HomeSeer
                  The Ti plugin provides much more detail than the CM11A so be sure to turn this off after you finish logging.
                  Mark, wait until I post a Ti103 update. I did not have the 103 detail logging set in the config and I will need to rerun those tests. It may be Sunday before I can get them posted.

                  Thanks much
                  Gary

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sorry for the delay...

                    Mark,
                    Attached is the Ti103 log. I strongly suspect the recent, ebay Ti103 is defective, but I would appreciated any analysis you can provide one way or the other.

                    I have been testing various scenarios and right now I have my original Ti103 connected to HS3 and my CM11a connected to HS2. At this point all seems well and fine, so I retract any previous conclusion that I had drawn regarding the Ti103 not working in my HS3 environment.

                    Thanks again,
                    Gary
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kbevo View Post
                      Mark,
                      Attached is the Ti103 log. I strongly suspect the recent, ebay Ti103 is defective, but I would appreciated any analysis you can provide one way or the other.

                      I have been testing various scenarios and right now I have my original Ti103 connected to HS3 and my CM11a connected to HS2. At this point all seems well and fine, so I retract any previous conclusion that I had drawn regarding the Ti103 not working in my HS3 environment.

                      Thanks again,
                      Gary
                      Hi Gary,

                      Thanks for taking the time to test this and post a new log!

                      Upon review of your log, the plugin and 'new' Ti103 are communicating properly so your issues with this unit do not appear to be plugin related. Unfortunately, the tests that you performed only sent commands from the Ti to the power line, and in order to understand how the Ti is interacting with the power line we'll need to test receiving X10 data from the power line, and test the Ti transmitted signal strength.
                      1. Verify that the DIP switches inside your new Ti are set properly. Here are the settings I use:
                        Ti103 DIP switch settings (for North America)
                        1 - Off
                        2 - Off
                        3 - Off
                        4 - Off
                        5 - On
                        6 - Off
                        7 - On
                        8 - Off
                      2. With your new Ti plugged into HS3, generate some X10 traffic on the power line using a separate controller or transmitting X10 appliance/dimmer module and log the results in HS3. If you don't have a mini-remote or transmitting X10 device then you could use your HS2 setup to send some commands. We are wanting to see the conversation between the plugin and Ti when the Ti is receiving X10 data from the power line.
                      3. Using your X10 meter, log the transmit signal levels of your old Ti vs your new Ti. Please use the following test procedure so we are comparing them under the exact same conditions, and be sure that nothing in your electrical system is changed between the tests (such as other devices being plugged/unplugged):
                        a. Plug your old Ti into the outlet you usually use and unplug the new Ti (very important).
                        b. Plug your X10 meter into an outlet that is not close to your Ti device (like on the other side of your house).
                        c. Send a command from HS.
                        d. Record the signal level read on the X10 meter.
                        e. Repeat steps c & d 4 more times
                        e. Unplug the old Ti and plug the new Ti into that outlet.
                        f. Restart the X10 plugin (so we're sure it is talking with the new Ti).
                        g. Send the same X10 command from HS as before.
                        h. Record the signal level read on the X10 meter.
                        i. Repeat steps g & h 4 more times


                      It will be interesting to see your results.

                      I've attached a copy of the Ti103 User Guide in case you don't have it.
                      Attached Files
                      Best regards,
                      -Mark-

                      If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
                      Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mfisher View Post
                        [LIST=1][*] Verify that the DIP switches inside your new Ti are set properly. Here are the settings I use:
                        Ti103 DIP switch settings (for North America)
                        1 - Off
                        2 - Off
                        3 - Off
                        4 - Off
                        5 - On
                        6 - Off
                        7 - On
                        8 - Off
                        [
                        Thanks for the settings. I believe I have 4 & 7 on, all others off. I will set both Ti103s to your settings and try again over a longer period.

                        Upon review of your log, the plugin and 'new' Ti103 are communicating properly so your issues with this unit do not appear to be plugin related.
                        Ok, I can buy that, however, it definitely appears to work much "different" than HS2 in my environment.

                        To update you on what I am seeing with the CM11a on HS2 and my original Ti103 on HS3, my x10 seemed to work well until late last night (about 4 or 5 hours). Then it stopped altogether. No HS3 x10 would work from the UI or to HS3 via remote nor IR543 (x10 IR receiver). HS2/CM11a worked fine. This morning, while HS3 X10 was still dead, I disabled the x10 plugin and enabled it again. Everything started working again, for about 3 or 4 hours. Then, I noticed the following error in the log:
                        2/24/2017 9:33:12 AM,Warning,Error handling UPNP request: Unable to read data from the transport connection: An existing connection was forcibly closed by the remote host.

                        In searching the MB about that error, the interesting thing is that there are posts that say to fix the error, to check "System is Discoverable Using UPNP" and posts that say to uncheck that setting (in HS3 Setup, Network). Since mine was already checked, I decided to try it unchecked, although I think I received this error some time ago, and checked it at that time. In any case, it is not clear to me that this error has anything to do with x10, in fact I have my doubts it does.

                        I restarted HS3 and x10 worked again for less than 30 min then x10 stopped like last night. This degree of unreliability from (both) 103's on HS3 is what I have experienced in the past. This is with the HS2 x10 plugin disabled and unplugged from the serial port, so I don't believe there is anything coming or going from HS2 that is impacting this issue.

                        I will bring both down, set the switchs on both 103's like yours, set my original Ti103 up like it was before on HS2 and take the recent 103 and put it back on HS3 and then start the detail logging. I will then ensure there is traffic going both ways as you described in you post. At least the problem is occurring often enough that we should be able to catch it with a detail log.

                        Thanks again,
                        Gary

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Heres something, further testing to follow w/logs...

                          This is not the test(s) you asked for although some of your tests are shown here for the recent Ti that is now connected to HS3. Wanted you to better understand the environment I am seeing, and have been seeing since bringing up HS3 and starting my migration two years ago.

                          This log starts off with the Ti debugging on HS3, with HS2 completely down. In that mode x10 seems to work fine for the entire time HS3 is running by itself. That doesn't necessarily prove anything because it has run that long before with HS2 up. However, all hell breaks loose when(ever) I tried to start HS2 while HS3 is already up. Now, I suppose this is a well known no-no, but I put this out there to show how much of a negative effect that HS2 can have on HS3. Not only does starting HS2 kill the HS3 x10 plugin, it kills most of the others as well. Point is, if this can happen at startup, is it not possible it may be having some impact on (x10) plugin at other times as well?

                          Have you, or any body, seen this before, is it just me?

                          Currently, I am running HS2 with x10 disabled and all the x10 debugging turned on for HS3. I want to run that way for a while, to see if/when x10 stops on HS3. In any case, I will get your tests completed tomorrow.

                          Thanks
                          Gary
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            X10 Stopped over night...

                            Mark, perhaps this log will tell you something. I know x10 was working shortly after 11 PM on the 24th. This morning, X10 was dead. I disabled the x10 plugin and enabled it and it started working again.

                            In looking at the log, the repetitive x10 control loop that runs every 5 minutes started producing different debug output at 2/25/2017 12:30:32 AM. Hopefully what you see, or don't see will tell you something about what may be happening.

                            Let me know what you think please.

                            Thanks
                            Gary
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Couple more...

                              Hopefully more is better. Anyway, here are two more, first one (25th#2) died about 2/25/2017 10:43:34 PM, and the second one died about 2/26/2017 9:40:14 AM. Let me know if you think there is any hope that further testing will lead to finding a resolution to this issue, if not I guess I will go back to the CM11a.. for as long as it lives.

                              Thanks again Mark.
                              Gary
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

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