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  • #16
    Hi Gary,

    Thanks for the log files, it is really helpful that you provided comments in these!

    I am very concerned that in "Homeseer.24.Log" a bunch of your HS3 plugins fail when you start HS2. The fact that there is any interaction between HS2 & HS3 whatsoever is a serious problem that needs to be resolved before we continue troubleshooting your X10 issues as this may be the root cause.

    Questions:
    1. Where are HS2 and HS3 installed on your PC; in the same directory or in completely separate directories?
    2. Can you please list the plugins and versions you are running under HS2 & under HS3?
    3. If you disable automatic startup of both HS2 & HS3 (and any other software) on your PC, reboot and manually start just HS3, how long does the X10 plugin run properly?
    4. What other software do you have installed on this PC?
    5. Have you been able to measure the X10 transmit & receive signal levels yet? (I'm trying to help determine if there's a problem with your 'new' Ti103 so you can return it if needed.)


    I do not run HS2 & HS3 on the same machine and would ask anyone that does to please chime in with their experience and any troubleshooting suggestions!
    Best regards,
    -Mark-

    If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
    Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by mfisher View Post
      Hi Gary,

      Thanks for the log files, it is really helpful that you provided comments in these!

      I am very concerned that in "Homeseer.24.Log" a bunch of your HS3 plugins fail when you start HS2. The fact that there is any interaction between HS2 & HS3 whatsoever is a serious problem that needs to be resolved before we continue troubleshooting your X10 issues as this may be the root cause.
      Mark, Yes, I have been concerned for years. But I don't believe anyone from HST is going to commit time to HS2 (related) issues. At this point, I have gone back to the CM11a, but really would like to (1) better understand the HS2/HS3 interface issues and (2) get X10 to work with the Ti103 and (3) If possible, have the HS2 x10 plugin enabled.

      I assume the detail logging when X10 stops does not provide any guidance as to what might be happening? Obviously, software can/does address the issue because it starts working again with the x10 plugin is disabled/enabled.

      Questions:

      [*]Where are HS2 and HS3 installed on your PC; in the same directory or in completely separate directories?
      They are both in their own directories, in the c:\ root.

      [*]Can you please list the plugins and versions you are running under HS2 & under HS3?


      Also see first post above.

      [*]If you disable automatic startup of both HS2 & HS3 (and any other software) on your PC, reboot and manually start just HS3, how long does the X10 plugin run properly?
      I have seen it run for 6 to 8 hours with no issues. However, I have things on HS2 that need to run and keeping it down longer than that has a greater negative impact.

      [*]What other software do you have installed on this PC?
      It is mainly a HA machine. I do run Windows Media Center on it for recording (not playback) however and it does do some shared file services to other household PCs. If you want more specifics, let me know and I will send you a copy of my Control Panel, Programs.

      [*]Have you been able to measure the X10 transmit & receive signal levels yet? (I'm trying to help determine if there's a problem with your 'new' Ti103 so you can return it if needed.)
      Yes, all my x10 signal levels are between 530 mv on the low end and 580 on the high end. I did return the recent 103, mostly because (1) I never got it to send an x10 command that would actually control a device and (2) I discovered that I had already bought a second one last year when I was dealing with this same problem. (I gave up then too.) I have confirmed that the one I had on a shelf does work with HS3 although it has the same issues with reliability as my older one.

      I do not run HS2 & HS3 on the same machine and would ask anyone that does to please chime in with their experience and any troubleshooting suggestions!
      Yes, please. Of particular interest is any startup interaction/issues you see when starting HS3 before (or after) HS2.

      Thanks
      Gary Spradling

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by mfisher View Post
        I am very concerned that in "Homeseer.24.Log" a bunch of your HS3 plugins fail when you start HS2. The fact that there is any interaction between HS2 & HS3 whatsoever is a serious problem that needs to be resolved before we continue troubleshooting your X10 issues as this may be the root cause.
        This happens because HS2 will shutdown any process that starts with HSPI as it starts up. I believe this was done in case HS2 plugins did not shut down properly when restarting HS2. On systems where you run both, HS2 should start first, although HS3 does a good job of starting them up again.

        Cheers
        Al
        HS 3.0.0.548: 1976 Devices 1156 Events
        Z-Wave 3.0.1.262: 123 Nodes on one Z-Net

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by sparkman View Post
          ...although HS3 does a good job of starting them up again.
          Thanks much sparkman for your feedback. Good to see you are still around, since we had conversations on this issue last year too.

          In the log that Mark referenced (posted above), the BLOnkyo was the only plugin that restarted without issues. The x10 plugin would not start back up even after disabling it and enabling it a second time. I ended up rebooting the machine, where it brings up HS2 and 5 minutes later HS3. But you have confirmed my suspicions, in that HS2 "can" have an effect on HS3 plugins. I just have no idea whether or not it actually is having any "after startup" effect on the HS3 x10 plugin, that may cause errors (in the case of my CM11a) or reliability (in the case of my Ti103's).

          If any other thoughts come to mind, please share.

          Thanks
          Gary

          Comment


          • #20
            Status Update...

            Well I have officially given up on the Ti (and have two available). They just do not work in my environment, probably because of the need to run both HS2/HS3 on the same machine. Plus, I need x10 on both machines, which for some reason causes X10 "issues" between the two HS control programs.

            However, I have been able to stabilize my X10 environment using two CM11a's. Without a Ti running, I have not see the GetUpload error produced by my (old) CM11a on HS3 that prompted this thread in the first place. I have been running without the Ti for about a week now and that error has not appeared in the log. Interesting.

            One unusual problem that I do have is that the X10 commands that are produced by HS2 are not picked up by HS3. I.e. if I send a B16 (appliance module) on from HS2 it is not seen nor logged by HS3. However going the other direction, HS2 seems to reliably pick up those same commands from HS3. Any suggestions/thoughts?

            Thanks
            Gary

            Comment


            • #21
              What a difference a day makes...

              Well all is not great in CM11 land after all. I had to reboot today, and HS3 failed in it's attempt to start-up the X10 plugin. Interesting that HS2 had already started, and initialized its CM11a. HS3 has a 5 minute delay after HS2 starts, so I don't think the timing was too close, but who knows? I was able to go into the interfaces and manually start it up, but it looks like I may never get X10 on both machines to peacefully coexist in all respects. Suggestions, anyone?

              Thanks
              Gary
              PS: If I was paranoid about conspiracies, I might believe the HS architects intentionally designed HS3 X10 to not cohabit with HS2.

              Current Date/Time: 3/11/2017 3:18:21 PM
              HomeSeer Version: HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.310
              Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center - Work Station
              System Uptime: 0 Days 0 Hours 15 Minutes 11 Seconds
              IP Address: 192.168.1.83
              Number of Devices: 123
              Number of Events: 56
              Available Threads: 800

              Enabled Plug-Ins
              2.0.44.0: BLOnkyo
              3.0.0.75: HSTouch Server
              30.0.0.33: RFXCOM
              3.0.6132.16975: UltraGCIR3
              3.0.0.40: X10

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Kbevo View Post
                . . .it looks like I may never get X10 on both machines to peacefully coexist in all respects. Suggestions, anyone?
                I don't recall (if you said) why running HS2 and HS3 on the same machine is important, but moving HS2 to another computer sounds like the most likely option to work for you. Even an old XP machine should handle HS2 without much trouble.
                Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548

                HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF, Rain8Net+ | RFXCOM | QSE100D | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | X10: XTB-232, -IIR | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3

                Comment


                • #23
                  I agree it wouldn't take much horse power to do whats left of HS2 (sprinklers and RCS Thermostat) on another machine. I wish now I had kept the two separate. I guess when the pain of fighting the issues gets worse than the pain of admitting defeat and building another PC for HS2, then I will go that route. I am at the point where all it takes is money to be able to retire HS2.

                  Gary

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Here started initially to run HS3 with HS2 on the same Windows server box. Then decided to run HS3 on a separate box.

                    With the introduction of Linux on the first Zee shifted the HS3 Pro from Windows to Linux.

                    You can start with a $35 Raspberry Pi 3.

                    Go Linux Go Linux. You will never regret it.

                    Relating to X10 check out Jeff Volp's stuff over here. ==> XTB Home

                    Relating to the Irrigation system here always used MCSprinklers...many many years...

                    Michael started to work on a Mono Linux version of MCSprinklers while HS3 still was just a wink.

                    It was a stand alone version and I installed it on the old Seagate Dockstar. I didn't want to be testing it on HS3. I have left it on the Seagate Dockstar running 24 / 7 now for a few years with no issues. Today you can install it on an RPi2-3 to connect to HS3, HS3 or by itself....with some tentacles to HS3.
                    - Pete

                    Auto mator
                    Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.534 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU - Mono 6.4X
                    Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.534 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro - Mono 6.4X

                    X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Pete View Post
                      Here started initially to run HS3 with HS2 on the same Windows server box. Then decided to run HS3 on a separate box.
                      Why? What happened to change your mind?

                      With the introduction of Linux on the first Zee shifted the HS3 Pro from Windows to Linux.

                      You can start with a $35 Raspberry Pi 3.

                      Go Linux Go Linux. You will never regret it.
                      If I were 30.. or even 20 years younger, I wouldn't hesitate to start down the Linux road. I have 7 windows devices and at my age, I really need to start pruning. Letting go is hard to do.

                      Relating to X10 check out Jeff Volp's stuff over here. ==> XTB Home
                      Thanks much for the link. I looked into his stuff a few years back. I have now bookmarked it and will give his products some more thought down the road. However, I have seen nothing to indicate that signal or signal strength is an x10 issue in my house. From my experience, it is all in the software (some where ). In fact I have had such good success with x10 (on HS2, of course) that considering the bang for the buck, I just can't see the benefit of the other protocols. On the other hand, I am leaning toward making a final push to migrate the final HS2 pieces and getting rid of it with the hope "hope" that will stabilize x10 on HS3.


                      Relating to the Irrigation system here always used MCSprinklers...many many years...
                      Me also. But that's another thing, since I stopped upgrading versions, I really don't have any issues with MCSprinklers. It just does its job, very well. I think of all my HA implementations, the one that causes the most frustration when it does not work right is my sprinkler HW/SW.

                      Thanks Pete, greatly appreciate your feedback.

                      Gary

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Kbevo View Post
                        ... One unusual problem that I do have is that the X10 commands that are produced by HS2 are not picked up by HS3. I.e. if I send a B16 (appliance module) on from HS2 it is not seen nor logged by HS3. However going the other direction, HS2 seems to reliably pick up those same commands from HS3. Any suggestions/thoughts?
                        Hi Gary, you do have a B16 X10 device created in HS3, right? If not it will not appear in the log!

                        If you do have a B16 X10 device in HS3 then to me this is an indication of an issue with the physical placement of your CM11a/Ti103 devices within your system more than any HS2, HS3 or plugin issue. I seem to recall you stating in an earlier post that your CM11a/Ti103 devices are plugged in near your PC, UPS and other electronic equipment. If so then this can lead to real problems.

                        Here is a simple test you can do to evaluate whether the issue is with your X10 interface placement, X10 interfaces, electrical environment or HS2, HS3 + plugins:
                        1. Plug an X10 noise filter into the wall where your CM11a's are plugged in.
                        2. Plug a power strip into the noise filter.
                        3. Plug both CM11a devices into the power strip.
                        4. Restart both versions of HS: HS2 first, then HS3.
                        5. Try sending X10 commands from HS3 and see what the HS2 log says.
                        6. Try sending X10 comands from HS2 and see what the HS3 log says. Again, be sure that this X10 device is created in HS3 otherwise HS3 will not log it being received.


                        This test setup basically creates an isolated X10 environment for the two CM11a devices that is separate from your house (so you cannot leave this configuration setup for long as neither copy of HS will be able to listen to or control your home). If you get good communication both ways; HS2->HS3 and HS3->HS2, then the issue is not HS, the plugins or the interfaces. If there are issues then this test setup will allow further testing that eliminates the possibility of your electrical environment injecting additional variables.

                        Please try this test and let me know what happens.
                        Best regards,
                        -Mark-

                        If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
                        Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Ok, I will give your test a shot when I do my MS updates next week and need to reboot, anyway. In thinking about your test, I decided to try a different one that is quick and easy. As you know, the CM11a comes with a power outlet. On the HS3 CM11a, I plugged in a short, multi-plug extension cord into that outlet with an appliance module and my x10 meter. I then went to the HS2 UI and turned On (H3) and the attached light came on and the meter showed 230 mv received (noise 120 mv). Nothing in the HS3 log. Going the other way however, HS2 picks up HS3's x10 just fine. Granted, in another outlet, on a different circuit. But if HS2 can turn on an x10 appliance module attached to HS3's CM11a, in my layman's view, it seems to me that an adequate signal is getting to the CM11a and is not processed by HS3. But I imagine there could well be factors that I'm overlooking there. What do you think?

                          Gary

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hi Gary,

                            Sorry, I don't mean to be so persistent, but can you please confirm that you have created that particular device as an X10 device in HS3 by following the procedure outlined here: https://forums.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=179522? The HS2 X10 plugin will happily log everything it sees from the CM11a while the HS3 X10 plugin will only log received X10 data for the devices that it currently owns and ignores everything else!

                            Maybe try swapping the CM11a devices and see what happens, perhaps one of them is getting tired...
                            Last edited by mfisher; March 12th, 2017, 04:48 PM.
                            Best regards,
                            -Mark-

                            If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
                            Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by mfisher View Post
                              Sorry, I don't mean to be so persistent...
                              No prob man, this old brain mis-fires too often to assume anything.

                              See image below.

                              Yep, this is the procedure I have used this year, creating all x10 devices from scratch. Last year I made the mistake of trying to copy x10 devices and changing the things I needed. Many issues, so I deleted them and recreated them using your process.

                              Maybe try swapping the CM11a devices and see what happens. Maybe one of them is getting 'tired'...
                              Done! Same issue.

                              Thanks Mark, I appreciate your help.
                              Gary


                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Why? What happened to change your mind?

                                Because I wanted to do the transition slow; baby steps wise so built a new computer
                                for HS3 and switched to Linux.

                                I have extra hardware such that I could replicate all of the hardware on the new computer.
                                - Pete

                                Auto mator
                                Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.534 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU - Mono 6.4X
                                Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.534 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro - Mono 6.4X

                                X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation.

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