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    HS3-Pi unable to control X10 lights via CM15A RF

    I have a HS3-Pi (running on a Pi 3) which I am unable to get to control X10 devices via an attached CM15A module. The HS3 version is 3.0.0.548, and the CM15A plugin version is 3.0.0.5. The log reports finding the CM15A and initializing it correctly.

    I have tried creating my devices for my X10 modules several times now. When doing that I'm always using the CM15A tab input the X10 module address. The log shows things like
    Device Control Device: Upstairs Hallway Upstairs to On (100) by/from: CAPI Control Handler
    but nothing actually happens.

    I can telnet into mochad and manually toggle the lights on and off so that part of the chain seems to be working. Any ideas on how to get Homeseer to work with my X10 devices?

    #2
    A post or search in the X10 forum would have thrown this one up. Read from start to finish. It should answer all your questions https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/li...h-cm15a-plugin

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by concordseer View Post
      A post or search in the X10 forum would have thrown this one up. Read from start to finish. It should answer all your questions https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/li...h-cm15a-plugin
      In the first place, I spent quite a bit of time searching the forums before posting. There's a lot of X10 dead ends to have to sort through, some of which occurred after the 2017 link you gave me.

      In the second place it does not appear that my problem is the same as yours. As I said in my original post according to the original logs the CM15A module was initializing just fine and mochad was always running as well. Updating to 0.1.17 does not solve the problem. For some reason the HS CM15A module and mochad don't talk to each other in my setup.

      Comment


        #4
        I was merely pointing out that an X10 problem will get more attention in the X10 sub forum. X10 is not longer officially supported in HS3 so most if not all the community support comes from Mark Fisher in his own spare time as does all the other support in these forums.

        Now the question is, have you ever had X10 working on HS3 on your RPI. If not then you have the same problem as I had.

        Assuming you have Mochad installed and configured properly (you don’t mention what version you have installed, nor do you mention what Raspbian version you use and what version of Mono you deploy, all helpful to know when troubleshooting) there’s a number options open to you.

        You obviously understand that just installing the CM15 plugin does not install X10. I had to do a manual install of Mochad prior to installing HS3 and correctly configure my service daemon prior to the HS server launching.

        Maybe a little more information on your install will help the volunteers here point you in the right direction to a working solution and a post in the X10 sub forum would help too.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by concordseer View Post
          I was merely pointing out that an X10 problem will get more attention in the X10 sub forum. X10 is not longer officially supported in HS3 so most if not all the community support comes from Mark Fisher in his own spare time as does all the other support in these forums.
          Well, the lack of support wasn't clear until I happened to run across that statement in one of the forum postings. If it's not supported by HS then I don't think (an out of date) mochad should be in the linux image provided by HS, nor should the CM15A plugin be provided for linux installations. As it stands now, it appears that many people have problems getting X10 going under linux. If HS isn't officially supporting X10 and linux anymore it should keep obsolete and/or non-supported software out of the official distribution channel.

          Originally posted by concordseer View Post
          Now the question is, have you ever had X10 working on HS3 on your RPI. If not then you have the same problem as I had.
          I don't know how you can make that statement. Your original post goes back to 2017 over two years ago. In the meantime the linux image at least has changed greatly. You don't know if changes to the linux kernel in the meantime have caused the problem I'm seeing. You're making big assumptions about what I've tried, my experience level, and so on.

          In fact I spent most of my spare time in the last two weeks trying to get the system running, sorting through various posts (most of which are obsolete), and trying various debug strategies. It didn't help that for over a week I couldn't even get an account here because the reCAPTCHA function required to set up an account was mysteriously missing from the sign-up page. I couldn't even notify the administrators because sending them a message required (you guessed it) the missing reCAPTCHA function on the webpage.

          I suppose I sound a bit snippy and I apologize for that, but it's because of a lot of frustration and deadends and dealing with obsolete information. I don't know if I would have even tried to get X10 running under HS3 if I knew at the start that it wasn't officially supported under linux anymore.

          Originally posted by concordseer View Post
          Assuming you have Mochad installed and configured properly (you don’t mention what version you have installed, nor do you mention what Raspbian version you use and what version of Mono you deploy, all helpful to know when troubleshooting) there’s a number options open to you.
          Which says that my situation may not be the same as yours because my versions may be different (in fact Raspbian is simply because it's two years older).

          Originally posted by concordseer View Post
          You obviously understand that just installing the CM15 plugin does not install X10. I had to do a manual install of Mochad prior to installing HS3 and correctly configure my service daemon prior to the HS server launching.
          I pointed out in my original post that mochad and the CM15A module were all initialized and running and that I could manually toggle my X10 devices via mochad. It's not a service daemon issue in my case.

          Originally posted by concordseer View Post
          Maybe a little more information on your install will help the volunteers here point you in the right direction to a working solution and a post in the X10 sub forum would help too.
          I started out with the hs3pi3_image_070319.zip image available here on the HS site. It comes with mochad 0.1.16 though as I said before I upgraded to 0.1.17. I also updated the Raspbian OS via apt-get (there were many updates since last July).

          However, I have discovered what may be the cause. By turning on mochad debug, it turns out that when I issue a "device on" command via HS3, what mochad gets is "PL House: A Func: On". But that won't work with my CM15A unless mochad gets "RF House: A Func On". For some reason the CM15A plugin is sending PL instead of RF and my CM15A won't work without that. So while the CM15A plugin and mochad are talking to each other (again it's not a service daemon issue), it appears that the CM15A plugin is not sending the right command to mochad. Is there any way of fixing this?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by jhutchins View Post
            However, I have discovered what may be the cause. By turning on mochad debug, it turns out that when I issue a "device on" command via HS3, what mochad gets is "PL House: A Func: On". But that won't work with my CM15A unless mochad gets "RF House: A Func On". For some reason the CM15A plugin is sending PL instead of RF and my CM15A won't work without that. So while the CM15A plugin and mochad are talking to each other (again it's not a service daemon issue), it appears that the CM15A plugin is not sending the right command to mochad. Is there any way of fixing this?
            It turns out that the wall plug I have my CM15A plugged into doesn't have a good X10 connection with the rest of my house (probably because of all the computer equipment also plugged into that room). That means that in the room where I currently have my Pi 3 set up I have to use RF and not PL. From concordseer's earlier post at https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/li...nly#post104199 it appears that the HS3 CM15A plugin doesn't support RF and will only send PL commands to mochad. I will be looking into two different options:

            1. Move my Pi 3 and CM15A to a room where I do have a good X10 PL connection. This means connecting my Pi 3 to my network via WiFi and not a dedicated ethernet connection. Not my preference but it may be my only solution.

            2. Since I have the source to mochad I could possibly modify it so that a PL command from the HS3 CM15A plugin gets translated into a RF command. I don't know if this is simply a textual substitution at the point where mochad gets a command from the plugin or if something more complicated is involved.

            Another thing I have noticed is that even though I cleared out the CM15A memory via AHP, the RF to PL bridge still seems to be connected.

            Comment


              #7
              As I suggested move your discussion to the X10 sub forum so Mark Fisher can see it and comment accordingly.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by concordseer View Post
                As I suggested move your discussion to the X10 sub forum so Mark Fisher can see it and comment accordingly.
                OK, I'll keep that in mind although at this point my questions have been basically answered. My Pi HS3 is now controlling my X10 lights via the CM15A over the powerline interface. The big issue for me now is the limited reach of X10 over power lines in my home and I would prefer the RF interface. Looking at the mochad source code it will be more of an effort than I thought to hack it into converting PL commands to RF. I haven't decided which way I'll go yet but if I get further questions regarding mochad and the CM15A plugin I'll post there in the future.

                Thanks for your comments and the earlier threads you started on X10, they definitely helped me.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I've moved this thread so hopefully Mark will see this one.
                  -Rupp
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jhutchins View Post

                    It turns out that the wall plug I have my CM15A plugged into doesn't have a good X10 connection with the rest of my house (probably because of all the computer equipment also plugged into that room). That means that in the room where I currently have my Pi 3 set up I have to use RF and not PL. From concordseer's earlier post at https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/li...nly#post104199 it appears that the HS3 CM15A plugin doesn't support RF and will only send PL commands to mochad. I will be looking into two different options:

                    1. Move my Pi 3 and CM15A to a room where I do have a good X10 PL connection. This means connecting my Pi 3 to my network via WiFi and not a dedicated ethernet connection. Not my preference but it may be my only solution.

                    2. Since I have the source to mochad I could possibly modify it so that a PL command from the HS3 CM15A plugin gets translated into a RF command. I don't know if this is simply a textual substitution at the point where mochad gets a command from the plugin or if something more complicated is involved.
                    Hello jhutchins, sorry that you're experiencing troubles with the CM15a plugin in your environment. BTW, thank you to concordseer for providing guidance and support, and to Rupp for moving this thread here to the HomeSeer X10 plugin forum!

                    Given the title of this thread "HS3-Pi unable to control X10 lights via CM15A" I was quickly confused on how you're planning to use a CM15a to control your lights via RF as I am not aware of any X10 RF dimmers. Could you please outline the components of your system and how they're interconnected?

                    Unfortunately the HS3 CM15a plugin treats the CM15a as a power line only interface and does not, nor has it ever supported RF transmission or reception (see this post: https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/li...ease-read-this). As you have discovered, the plugin only issues power line control signals to the CM15a (via mochad under Linux and via AHScript under Windows) and it only recognizes PL data received from the CM15a. Further, due to the limitations of these two interfaces (mochad & AHScript) the CM15a is limited in what it can do; specifically no Preset Dim support and there are issues with supporting Extended Control data.

                    Regarding the limited reach of your X10 power line signals, welcome the wonderful world of X10! Please understand that X10 signals on the power line are extremely susceptible to interference and signal degradation caused by all modern electronic devices (computers, cell phone chargers, A/V equipment, kitchen appliances, some LED lamps, fluorescent lights, garage door openers, washing machines, dryers, etc.) and it can be very challenging to create a reliable system with these devices connected within your environment. I use X10 almost exclusively and have spent years testing signal strengths and noise levels, installing X10 filters, repeaters and bridges, and my system is about 99% reliable. Even with all this work, I still have occasional missed lighting events. I would strongly recommend that you spend some time researching X10 powerline theory, signal testing and noise reduction strategies. Phil Kingery from Act-Solutions (no longer in business) was the king (no pun intended) of X10 self-help articles and I see that these are now disappearing from the 'net. Here is a link to a site that still has some: https://zigbeedomotica.nl/phil-kingery-x10-articles/

                    Another thing I have noticed is that even though I cleared out the CM15A memory via AHP, the RF to PL bridge still seems to be connected.

                    I believe you need to use AHP to turn off the RF<-->PL repeater function, and to set or unset any other functions or features as the X10 plugin does not support any of this. Note that "clearing the memory" only clears the internal macro storage area within the CM15a but does not change the device settings.

                    Finally, as others have mentioned, HomeSeer Tech decided some time ago to no longer support their HS3 "X10" plugins and I volunteered to provide support and bug fixes for this aging technology as there are still quite a few folks using it, and I still use it. That said, my business keeps me very busy and I have limited time to devote to supporting the 3 separate (and different) code bases for the X10 plugins ("X10" for CM11a/Ti103, CM15a for Windows and CM15a for Linux), and I ask in advance for your patience when posting issues here in the X10 forum as it may take me a some time get back to you.
                    Best regards,
                    -Mark-

                    If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
                    Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by mfisher View Post

                      Hello jhutchins, sorry that you're experiencing troubles with the CM15a plugin in your environment. BTW, thank you to concordseer for providing guidance and support, and to Rupp for moving this thread here to the HomeSeer X10 plugin forum!

                      Given the title of this thread "HS3-Pi unable to control X10 lights via CM15A" I was quickly confused on how you're planning to use a CM15a to control your lights via RF as I am not aware of any X10 RF dimmers. Could you please outline the components of your system and how they're interconnected?
                      Hello Mark, thanks for answering with a long post!

                      There was some initial confusion on my part at the start of my posts since I had stopped using X10 with Homeseer over a decade ago and had forgotten a lot of the details (I literally had to dig my old CM15A out of the bottom of my closet). Most of my lights are now on Z wave but I still have a couple multiswitch X10 lights that I never moved over. While I have been controlling these lights with HR12A remotes via a TM751 transceiver (which is also how the CM15A controls the lights via RF), my ultimate goal is to get them to respond to Alexa and in the past few weeks have been reacquainting myself with Homeseer to do that (though so far I haven't been able to get Alexa to recognize my X10 devices via either of the Homeseer skills).

                      I never needed or wanted to use the dimmer function with the CM15A (though see below); I really only wanted to turn the lights on and off which I can do using RF.

                      Originally posted by mfisher View Post
                      Unfortunately the HS3 CM15a plugin treats the CM15a as a power line only interface and does not, nor has it ever supported RF transmission or reception (see this post: https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/li...ease-read-this). As you have discovered, the plugin only issues power line control signals to the CM15a (via mochad under Linux and via AHScript under Windows) and it only recognizes PL data received from the CM15a. Further, due to the limitations of these two interfaces (mochad & AHScript) the CM15a is limited in what it can do; specifically no Preset Dim support and there are issues with supporting Extended Control data.
                      Yes, I discovered some of that since my last post. Since then I have hacked mochad 1.17 to do a RF command instead of a PL command to the CM15A when the Homeseer CM15A plugin gets a light ON or OFF command from the web interface and sends a PL command to mochad. The hack involves only a few lines of code in the encode.c file of mochad. That works fairly well although I'm still testing it. I am not entirely sure I'm dealing correctly with edge conditions such as turning a light on via Homeseer and then turning it off with one of my HR12A remotes.

                      It's also possible that the CM15A locks up after awhile because of something I'm doing (the mochad source code indicates that the CM15A is kind of touchy). I've occasionally seen it lock up after repeated commands.

                      I even played around with dimming by replacing PL dimming commands with RF ones, but from the mochad source code and my experiments it's clear that the RF commands don't really support dimming as you say. Dimming is either all on or all off.

                      Originally posted by mfisher View Post
                      Regarding the limited reach of your X10 power line signals, welcome the wonderful world of X10! Please understand that X10 signals on the power line are extremely susceptible to interference and signal degradation caused by all modern electronic devices (computers, cell phone chargers, A/V equipment, kitchen appliances, some LED lamps, fluorescent lights, garage door openers, washing machines, dryers, etc.) and it can be very challenging to create a reliable system with these devices connected within your environment. I use X10 almost exclusively and have spent years testing signal strengths and noise levels, installing X10 filters, repeaters and bridges, and my system is about 99% reliable. Even with all this work, I still have occasional missed lighting events. I would strongly recommend that you spend some time researching X10 powerline theory, signal testing and noise reduction strategies. Phil Kingery from Act-Solutions (no longer in business) was the king (no pun intended) of X10 self-help articles and I see that these are now disappearing from the 'net. Here is a link to a site that still has some: https://zigbeedomotica.nl/phil-kingery-x10-articles/
                      I've done a bunch of experiments with a really long power extension cord plugged into my CM15A (with the released version of mochad using only PL commands) and discovered that only about a third of the power outlets in my house have a good X10 connection with my two X10 lights. They aren't in the best place to locate my Pi and the CM15A, but that's my backup plan if my mochad hack doesn't work out. Given that I only have two X10 lights it's not worth it to me to install X10 filters, repeaters, or bridges. Fortunately a dedicated Pi is a much more portable option than the PC I was using long ago.

                      Originally posted by mfisher View Post

                      I believe you need to use AHP to turn off the RF<-->PL repeater function, and to set or unset any other functions or features as the X10 plugin does not support any of this. Note that "clearing the memory" only clears the internal macro storage area within the CM15a but does not change the device settings.
                      Thanks for the tip!

                      Originally posted by mfisher View Post
                      Finally, as others have mentioned, HomeSeer Tech decided some time ago to no longer support their HS3 "X10" plugins and I volunteered to provide support and bug fixes for this aging technology as there are still quite a few folks using it, and I still use it. That said, my business keeps me very busy and I have limited time to devote to supporting the 3 separate (and different) code bases for the X10 plugins ("X10" for CM11a/Ti103, CM15a for Windows and CM15a for Linux), and I ask in advance for your patience when posting issues here in the X10 forum as it may take me a some time get back to you.
                      OK. I really do appreciate the time you've spent on replying to me!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jhutchins View Post

                        Well, the lack of support wasn't clear until I happened to run across that statement in one of the forum postings. If it's not supported by HS then I don't think (an out of date) mochad should be in the linux image provided by HS, nor should the CM15A plugin be provided for linux installations. As it stands now, it appears that many people have problems getting X10 going under linux. If HS isn't officially supporting X10 and linux anymore it should keep obsolete and/or non-supported software out of the official distribution channel.
                        jhutchins,

                        I am sorry that you are experiencing issues with X10 and Homeseer-Pi. I agree that Homesee has not been upfront about the Pi not supporting X10. I was about to pull the trigger and order a HS3-Pi to bridge my old X10 system with Z-Wave. I am now rethinking that position. I asked Homeseer about the integration and support said it should work without mentioning they stopped supporting X10 on Linux. If I am going to have to kludge things together and depend on forum support, I may as well go with Home-Assistant and Heyu.

                        The fact that Homeseer pulled support for X10 out of Linux isn't the issue for me. It is the fact they don't mention this and support lead me to believe it was still supported. That gives me a queasy feeling about doing further business with Homeseer. I have been happy with Homeseer products in the past but the lack of candor about their X10 support makes me feel like I cannot trust Homeseer going forward.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by jordiboyd View Post

                          jhutchins,

                          I am sorry that you are experiencing issues with X10 and Homeseer-Pi. I agree that Homesee has not been upfront about the Pi not supporting X10. I was about to pull the trigger and order a HS3-Pi to bridge my old X10 system with Z-Wave. I am now rethinking that position. I asked Homeseer about the integration and support said it should work without mentioning they stopped supporting X10 on Linux. If I am going to have to kludge things together and depend on forum support, I may as well go with Home-Assistant and Heyu.

                          The fact that Homeseer pulled support for X10 out of Linux isn't the issue for me. It is the fact they don't mention this and support lead me to believe it was still supported. That gives me a queasy feeling about doing further business with Homeseer. I have been happy with Homeseer products in the past but the lack of candor about their X10 support makes me feel like I cannot trust Homeseer going forward.
                          jordiboyd,

                          The statement from HomeSeer support to you was 100% correct and X10 is still supported in HS3 using the HomeSeer X10 and CM15a plugins that run under both Windows and Linux (including the R-Pi). While it is true that HomeSeer Tech ceased their official support for X10 several years ago, I volunteered to provide support for these and I will continue to do so as we transition to HS4. There are still many folks using X10 (including myself) so support for X10 under HomeSeer is not going away!
                          Best regards,
                          -Mark-

                          If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
                          Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by jhutchins View Post

                            Hello Mark, thanks for answering with a long post!

                            There was some initial confusion on my part at the start of my posts since I had stopped using X10 with Homeseer over a decade ago and had forgotten a lot of the details (I literally had to dig my old CM15A out of the bottom of my closet). Most of my lights are now on Z wave but I still have a couple multiswitch X10 lights that I never moved over. While I have been controlling these lights with HR12A remotes via a TM751 transceiver (which is also how the CM15A controls the lights via RF), my ultimate goal is to get them to respond to Alexa and in the past few weeks have been reacquainting myself with Homeseer to do that (though so far I haven't been able to get Alexa to recognize my X10 devices via either of the Homeseer skills).

                            I never needed or wanted to use the dimmer function with the CM15A (though see below); I really only wanted to turn the lights on and off which I can do using RF.



                            Yes, I discovered some of that since my last post. Since then I have hacked mochad 1.17 to do a RF command instead of a PL command to the CM15A when the Homeseer CM15A plugin gets a light ON or OFF command from the web interface and sends a PL command to mochad. The hack involves only a few lines of code in the encode.c file of mochad. That works fairly well although I'm still testing it. I am not entirely sure I'm dealing correctly with edge conditions such as turning a light on via Homeseer and then turning it off with one of my HR12A remotes.

                            It's also possible that the CM15A locks up after awhile because of something I'm doing (the mochad source code indicates that the CM15A is kind of touchy). I've occasionally seen it lock up after repeated commands.

                            I even played around with dimming by replacing PL dimming commands with RF ones, but from the mochad source code and my experiments it's clear that the RF commands don't really support dimming as you say. Dimming is either all on or all off.



                            I've done a bunch of experiments with a really long power extension cord plugged into my CM15A (with the released version of mochad using only PL commands) and discovered that only about a third of the power outlets in my house have a good X10 connection with my two X10 lights. They aren't in the best place to locate my Pi and the CM15A, but that's my backup plan if my mochad hack doesn't work out. Given that I only have two X10 lights it's not worth it to me to install X10 filters, repeaters, or bridges. Fortunately a dedicated Pi is a much more portable option than the PC I was using long ago.



                            Thanks for the tip!



                            OK. I really do appreciate the time you've spent on replying to me!
                            Thank you for clarifying why you're trying to use CM15a to send RF commands instead sending over the power line; a good solution to your distance problem for a couple of remote X10 modules!

                            Your hack of the mochad source is probably the best solution for your situation. As you have found, the mochad/CM15a combination is not super stable. I've been investigating building a unified Windows/Linux CM15a driver so that the full range of X10 commands can be properly supported (Preset Dims, Extended commands and data, etc) but that's a very long term project.
                            Best regards,
                            -Mark-

                            If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
                            Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Mark some interesting work here. You may have already seen it. This library supports RF-RF comms under X10. Its implemented in HomeGenie https://www.nuget.org/packages/XTenLib/

                              Comment

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