Who is still using X10 and what are your plans?

[Pete]

Standard WiFi devices sold on Amazon use the cloud for management configuring the device with your cell phone vendor app which is free and there are HS plugins which work with these devices via the cloud.

The WiFi switches were always cheap from China. If you look you can find these as cheap as $10 a piece lately. The wall switches electronics were a bit smaller to reverse engineer but basically they are all the same. IE: I am waiting to reverse engineer the Leviton WiFi switches.

You can get these really cheap now from Ebay, Amazon, et al.

That said to utilize these devices "cloudless" is to update the firmware on the device which can be done today wirelessly or via JTAG (safest way) and very documented.

If you go the MQTT route there is mcsMQTT (free) to control these devices.

You can see the MQTT stuff right on the device via the GUI interface:

switch:
- name: Espurna_1WIREA
state_topic: Espurna-1WIREA/relay/0
command_topic: Espurna-1WIREA/relay/0/set
payload_on: 1
payload_off: 0
availability_topic: Espurna-1WIREA/status
payload_available: 1
payload_not_available: 0


sensor:
- name: Espurna_1WIREA_temperature
state_topic: Espurna-1WIREA/temperature/0
unit_of_measurement: °F

- name: Espurna_1WIREA_temperature
state_topic: Espurna-1WIREA/temperature/1
unit_of_measurement: °F

- name: Espurna_1WIREA_temperature
state_topic: Espurna-1WIREA/temperature/2
unit_of_measurement: °F

- name: Espurna_1WIREA_temperature
state_topic: Espurna-1WIREA/temperature/3
unit_of_measurement: °F

The updates today by Tasmota, ESPurna and others allow for use with MQTT and HUE emulation et al.

[feman]

Thanks for that response Pete. That answered a lot of my questions. I have been following the mcsMQTT discussion thread for a while now, but I think the terminology got me sidetracked. When Michael was talking about tasmota, that is a firmware load, NOT a product!!

So, you're saying that just about "any" Chinese WiFi device can be reprogrammed so that are under local control only. That is exactly what I was looking for.

I see other plugins on the Updater like AK Sonoff and Cps Tuya. They control WiFi devices as well. Are they doing something different?

Thanks again Pete. Your posts are ALWAYS so helpful.

[Uncle Michael]

Wireless X10 and X10 PLC are completely different technologies, although there are a few devices that will bridge them together.
The X10 plug-in that was abandoned by HST and now supported by Mark Fisher interfaces only to X10 PLC. There are three other plug-ins (RFXCOM, BLRF, and SimpleRF) that can be used to integrate wireless X10 into HS. I assumed the poll referred to X10 PLC.

[Pete]

So, you're saying that just about "any" Chinese WiFi device can be reprogrammed so that are under local control only. That is exactly what I was looking for.

Yes they are basically using the same cloud service and board designs. IE: 1Mb OS which talks to an ESP chip and WiFi chip. Only thing stopping this endeavor would be if the case is sealed or board is in epoxy or is expensive. For $10 a switch it's a non issue to rip it apart. So firmware like Tasmota, Espurna et al just write a new OS to the 1Mb space. Every day now someone is ripping these WiFi devices apart and testing firmware builds on same said devices. I am guessing the Leviton WiFi switches talk to the Leviton cloud the same as the el cheapo WiFi switches which talk to a another cloud.

Google Ebay WiFi switches or Amazon WiFi switches and see for yourself.

I see other plugins on the Updater like AK Sonoff and Cps Tuya. They control WiFi devices as well. Are they doing something different?

Yes the plugins speak to the cloud which speaks to the switch.





We are way off topic here now....

And I concur that the original topic related to X10 PLC which is still widely utilized around the world with millions of X10 PLC devices still being utilized.

And yes Homeseer should include and support X10 in HS4.

BTW here utilize X10 (PLC and Wireless), UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and lately MQTT WiFi switches and the mix included Insteon many many years ago.

I did tell the Insteon folks off loudly for their FU at the last EHExpo that I was at a few years ago.

[outbackrob]

Why are you asking this? Curious why you are seeking this information? Are you asking for yourself, or HomeSeer Technologies?

I'm just curious about it. I was looking through the garage and I have 2 giant plastic tubs FILLED with hundreds of new and used X10 devices. Many are still in cloud boxes. I was wondering what the heck I was going to do with them and then wondered what folks here are doing. I am not in any way affiliated with HST other than I own HS1-HS4 and some HST plugins.

I went 100% Z-Wave when we moved to this house. It does seem to be better than X10, but not a whole lot. Still have devices that mysteriously operate or mysteriously take forever to operate.

[outbackrob]

Globally there are still millions of X10 users / devices out there in internetlandia. …..

I think I have a measurable percentage of them in my garage.....

[Pete]

Here have done the same except that I box the Christmas X-10 modules and FreeWire modules with the Christmas lights and the spares are in a tupperware container.

My in wall switches today are all UPB working 100% of the time. Never did want to do wireless anything for my in wall switches until I started to tinker with WiFi firmware modded MQTT switches. I am impressed so far with them and very easy to manage.


Did get rid of all of my in wall BSR / RS X10 in wall switches and wall outlets way long time ago. Good run with them from around 1978 until the early 2000's when I switched over to Insteon (what a waste of effort and time for POS Insteon which all eventually failed me).

Did test UPB, ZWave, Insteon and Zigbee for my Christmas lighting and it was a waste and time consuming to configure these for Christmas.

Now it is one house code for all of the indoor and outdoor lights which I like. Actually regressed on the garage lighting going from LED (WAF was bad) to older style C9 bulbs (which are a PITA as they are very delicate). Went to those 500-1000 net LED lights (for bushes) modifying the controller for outdoor use.

[Mark S.]

I'm an X-10 holdout - not because I'm a stubborn old fart, but because I'm tired of troubleshooting Z-wave. I have about 20 Z-Wave devices (modules, locks, blinds, sensors) - very cool features, when they work. But I find them definitely more fussy and less reliable than my old X-10 stuff - I have to fiddle with my Z-wave stuff far too often to get it working again. I literally have not touched by X-10 transmitter and switches in about 15 years, because I don't need to.

[Rupp]

Rupp, how are you controlling these devices?

I have been thinking about getting WiFi controlled devices. It seems there are several plugins from third party devs that claim to control WiFi devices. How does one know which plugin supports which device?

I'm using the Cps Tuya plugin and it's been working great. I'm adding more and more of these as Christmas nears and I do not have to worry about the age old X10 issue where plugging in one new device and half of the devices quit working. I put up a new fluorescent light in my garage last year and that was the end of X10 for me as the ballast apparently was sucking up all X10 signals. I switched to these WIFI plugs and haven't looked back at X10.

[Pete]

Yeah here went to using Jeff Volp's X10 controllers way long time ago. This was X10 on steroids like UPB Power line is.

JV Digital Engineering

Have a bunch of CM11A's here and I have tested them to work just fine throughout the entire home. That said I did redo my fuse panel and added many breakers separate out the electricity a bit. I leave an X10 signal test on line 24/7 on the server shelves and only saw noise when my AC compressor was going.

IE: TV room has three breakers - one for media tv stuff, one for the rest of the outlets and one for the lights. I have dedicated 4 breakers to the media panel wall and server rack here...now running low power sucking servers and now 6 UPS's (1500 sized) - overkill and no X10 noise.

I also connect UPB / X10 controllers next to the fuse panel on their own circuits and run serial cables to the computers and alarm panel. Did this in the 1990's.

[Pete]

Rupp ...if you updated the firmware on your WiFi switches you could do your stuff cloudless locally or remote via your smart phone. (no dependancies on the Tuya iOT cloud)

[Rupp]

Rupp ...if you updated the firmware on your WiFi switches you could do your stuff cloudless locally or remote via your smart phone. (no dependancies on the Tuya iOT cloud)

Thanks Pete. I've lost interest in messing with the hardware like I used to be. I like the plug n' play nature of plugging these in and adding them to HS and being done with it.

[ksum]

Flashing these devices can be...
a chore...
If you are doing a bunch and set up a board/jig to flash, or get one that allows for it over the air, then it's not to bad. There is a large number of people who flash then, though.

[outbackrob]

…..I like the plug n' play nature of plugging these in and adding them to HS and being done with it.

Until the internet goes down!

[Pete]

I've lost interest in messing with the hardware like I used to be.

Understood Rupp.

Personally have enjoyed hardware mods since the 1960's. I was in to ham radio in 1960's when I was a kid and built a few Knight kits back then.


Homeseer has feed my habit of automation hardware modifications

and I do not want to have dependencies on the cloud.

But that is me and my wants.