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  • CM15A plugin support for X10 motion sensors

    Hi guys

    I am a brand new owner of a Zee S2 wanting to integrate my old X10 system with newer Z-Wave products.

    I've just setup all my X10 devices and scheduled events, etc., and everything works well except for the X10 motion sensors which I can't get to work. I have a CM15 Pro interface, and do not have any other RF interface. I'm not really willing to purchase any additional products to support X10 as I want to invest in Z-Wave products going forward.

    I've scrummaged through the forums, and do see a few posts that suggest that people have got X10 motion sensors to work with the CM15 on HS.

    So just to confirm, does the HS CM15A plugin support motion sensors? Specifically I have a number of MS13E. They have been working fine on a HomeGenie (Win10) server before I made the switch to the Zee S2.

    If so, how do you set up the motion sensors? The posts I've read suggest that the sensor is just set up as a normal appliance device and I should then be able to see the sensor outputting on and off values in the log. But nothing at all is coming up in the logs.

    Look forward to some advice on this.

    Cheers
    Andrew

    My system ...

    Current Date/Time: 5/2/2016 12:35:02 PM
    HomeSeer Version: HS3 ZEE S2 Edition 3.0.0.280
    Linux version: Linux HomeTrollerZeeS2 3.18.7-v7+ #755 SMP PREEMPT Thu Feb 12 17:20:48 GMT 2015 armv7l GNU/Linux System Uptime: 0 Days 14 Hours 16 Minutes 6 Seconds
    IP Address: 192.168.100.216
    Number of Devices: 10
    Number of Events: 18
    Available Threads: 399

    Enabled Plug-Ins
    3.0.0.4: CM15A
    3.0.0.68: HSTouch Server
    3.0.1.74: Z-Wave
    Last edited by abwyatt; May 2nd, 2016, 12:27 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by abwyatt View Post
    I've just setup all my X10 devices and scheduled events, etc., and everything works well except for the X10 motion sensors which I can't get to work. I have a CM15 Pro interface, and do not have any other RF interface.
    Welcome to the Homeseer forum.
    I'm impressed from the start that you are using the CM15A plug-in successfully. Many people have reported problems using it in HS3.
    I'm not really willing to purchase any additional products to support X10 as I want to invest in Z-Wave products going forward. . . .
    So just to confirm, does the HS CM15A plugin support motion sensors? Specifically I have a number of MS13E.
    I understand the reluctance to throw more money after X10, but it's important to note that X10 wireless and X10 PLC share only the 'X10' in the name. If I were doing it, I would (and did!) buy a separate receiver and use a plug-in to receive data from the motion sensor directly into HS. In my opinion X10 wireless is an excellent protocol and the devices are often quite inexpensive.

    That said, in principle you should be able to use the CM15A to transfer the wireless signal to the power line. If you've found instances were people have figured out how to do that, perhaps a private message would get you some advice. My impression is that it has been problematic for most who've tried it.
    Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
    HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548

    HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF, Rain8Net+ | RFXCOM | QSE100D | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | X10: XTB-232, -IIR | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by abwyatt View Post
      So just to confirm, does the HS CM15A plugin support motion sensors? Specifically I have a number of MS13E. They have been working fine on a HomeGenie (Win10) server before I made the switch to the Zee S2.

      If so, how do you set up the motion sensors? The posts I've read suggest that the sensor is just set up as a normal appliance device and I should then be able to see the sensor outputting on and off values in the log. But nothing at all is coming up in the logs.
      Well, I have a handful of X10 devices left in my HS3 system, including a single motion sensor (MS13?) and I use a CM15. Mine generally works fine. I haven't touched any of the X10 (X15) stuff for over a year, I am mainly ZWave these days, but it continues to work. It's probably 95% reliable which is fine for how I use it. Lot's of people have problems with the CM15 plugin and particularly the RF side of things. I had problems at first and had to work around various issues but it works ok for my particular installation. Of course, because it's some years since I changed anything X10 my memory is somewhat rusty on what hoops I had to jump through to get it working.

      A few important points are:
      1. When you create a new device you need to make sure you configure the house codes on the X15 tab so that the plugin owns the device.
      2. If you want to see received commands in the log (a must for troubleshooting) you need to turn debugging on in the ini file.
      3. Events won't trigger from received commands only device status changes. So for motion sensors you need to create an X15 device with the appropriate codes, delete all the status values not needed (i.e. just keep 0 and 100) and it should show the status of the motion sensor.

      The HS3 X15 plugin has a lot of rough edges and doesn't appear to work in some peoples installations. I wouldn't recommend buying a CM15 but, if you already have one it's probably worth persevering a bit to see if you can make it work for you.

      The CM15 itself can be a bit querky. Mine was at one end of the house originally and worked well. I have no filters but my X10 power line signals reached the extremities of the property including passing through two fuse boxes and RCDs. A couple of years ago I reorganized my whole system so I had my server in a central position and wired the CM15 to it's own dedicated short spur from the central fuse box. X10 went completely dead, I couldn't get anything to react. I tested the CM15 back in the original position and it worked fine but wouldn't work at all in its' new central position. In the end I discovered that if I added an extension lead at least 2m long between the socket and the CM15 it worked perfectly

      Steve

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
        Welcome to the Homeseer forum.
        I'm impressed from the start that you are using the CM15A plug-in successfully. Many people have reported problems using it in HS3.
        I understand the reluctance to throw more money after X10, but it's important to note that X10 wireless and X10 PLC share only the 'X10' in the name. If I were doing it, I would (and did!) buy a separate receiver and use a plug-in to receive data from the motion sensor directly into HS. In my opinion X10 wireless is an excellent protocol and the devices are often quite inexpensive.

        That said, in principle you should be able to use the CM15A to transfer the wireless signal to the power line. If you've found instances were people have figured out how to do that, perhaps a private message would get you some advice. My impression is that it has been problematic for most who've tried it.
        Thanks very much for the warm welcome

        Well, when I posted I was just working with the very basics. All my X10 devices just had simple time triggered events. That appeared to be working well initially. And the Android app worked perfectly. However, as a couple of days have gone by and all the events began to be utilised multiple times, I began to observe reliability problems. Discovered a quirk in the plugin whereby triggering multiple X10 devices at the exact same time would result in devices not turning off/on occasionally. To fix the problem, I had to stagger identical-time triggers by 10 seconds or more. Haven't had any reliability problems since. It has to be a quirk because ActiveHome Pro and HomeGenie with a CM15 plugin never had a problem triggering multiple X10 devices at the exact same time.

        As I've started playing with HSTouch Designer, I'm discovering even more quirks and problems. Presently pulling my hair out over building in X10 device status indicators on a touch interface. But that is one for another section of the forum.

        I only have 3 X10 motion sensors, so a cost benefit of buying a RF receiver versus buying 3 replacement Z-Wave motion sensors would certainly favor the latter. A route I will take if I can't get the X10 sensors going.

        Cheers
        Andrew
        Last edited by abwyatt; May 3rd, 2016, 09:56 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SteveMSJ View Post
          Well, I have a handful of X10 devices left in my HS3 system, including a single motion sensor (MS13?) and I use a CM15. Mine generally works fine. I haven't touched any of the X10 (X15) stuff for over a year, I am mainly ZWave these days, but it continues to work. It's probably 95% reliable which is fine for how I use it. Lot's of people have problems with the CM15 plugin and particularly the RF side of things. I had problems at first and had to work around various issues but it works ok for my particular installation. Of course, because it's some years since I changed anything X10 my memory is somewhat rusty on what hoops I had to jump through to get it working.

          A few important points are:
          1. When you create a new device you need to make sure you configure the house codes on the X15 tab so that the plugin owns the device.
          2. If you want to see received commands in the log (a must for troubleshooting) you need to turn debugging on in the ini file.
          3. Events won't trigger from received commands only device status changes. So for motion sensors you need to create an X15 device with the appropriate codes, delete all the status values not needed (i.e. just keep 0 and 100) and it should show the status of the motion sensor.

          The HS3 X15 plugin has a lot of rough edges and doesn't appear to work in some peoples installations. I wouldn't recommend buying a CM15 but, if you already have one it's probably worth persevering a bit to see if you can make it work for you.

          The CM15 itself can be a bit querky. Mine was at one end of the house originally and worked well. I have no filters but my X10 power line signals reached the extremities of the property including passing through two fuse boxes and RCDs. A couple of years ago I reorganized my whole system so I had my server in a central position and wired the CM15 to it's own dedicated short spur from the central fuse box. X10 went completely dead, I couldn't get anything to react. I tested the CM15 back in the original position and it worked fine but wouldn't work at all in its' new central position. In the end I discovered that if I added an extension lead at least 2m long between the socket and the CM15 it worked perfectly

          Steve
          Well, I was just about to pack away the X10 motion sensors for good, but let me have one more try in response to your post which I really appreciate. Gives me a bit of hope.

          X10 has always been a pain in the butt, particularly when you have noise in the powerlines. I'm a 10 year X10/PLC-Bus veteran, who really struggled in the first 2 years until I started buying diagnostic equipment like the indispensible signal strength meter and also replacing dead X10 modules with PLC-Bus modules which are less vulnerable to noise. However, I still ended up having to put a huge noise filter at the power lines coming out of the electricity meter to keep noise out from the neighbour's and power company's appliances. The system has been rock solid since which is why I'd certainly like to keep utilising what I have.

          Anyway, turning to your pointers:

          1. Done that. All my devices are being triggered by events reliably now.

          2. How would I do this? Would I do this by running a command through Linux Tools? Or would I use SSH? I am not at all familiar with Linux commands.

          3. I'm not sure I followed you here. I attach a screenshot of the status text/graphics page. I've deleted On/Off status values, but left the numerical values. Is that what you mean?

          Cheers
          Andrew
          Attached Files

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by abwyatt View Post
            2. How would I do this? Would I do this by running a command through Linux Tools? Or would I use SSH? I am not at all familiar with Linux commands.
            Well I am running on Windows so there may be some differences in the plugin. The CM15A.ini file should be in the /config folder of HS3. If it isn't there then you could create one, it doesn't have a lot in it. Mine looks like this:

            [settings]
            PluginDebug=True
            Override=True

            No idea what Override is for but PluginDebug=True within the [settings] section turns on the debugging. All this does is log the CM15 commands in the HS3 log.
            When using HS3 on Linux I would run the program WinSCP on a windows PC and use that to log on to the Linux box for editing or copying files back and forth between windows and Linux.


            Originally posted by abwyatt View Post
            3. I'm not sure I followed you here. I attach a screenshot of the status text/graphics page. I've deleted On/Off status values, but left the numerical values. Is that what you mean?
            Not exactly, put the text values Off and On back in the relevant status boxes. I was referring to deleting all the other value pairs that the X15 plugin creates when you create a new device (2, 3, etc). I would also change the Status-Control to just Status (not both). This will prevent these devices appearing in the action dropdowns of events. This device is just to show the status not to send commands. It's not important but cleaner.

            See how you get on.

            I also started many years ago on ActiveHome Pro before moving to HS2. Interestingly I used to find that it was necessary to stagger X10 commands on ActiveHomePro otherwise only one would get through whereas when I changed to HS2 I no longer had to do that. I don't think I have had that problem with HS3 either.
            Some bell in the back of my head makes me think that there are options within the CM15 to determine which Housecodes received as RF are re-transmitted on the powerline. I don't remember how mine is set or whether it is relevant to getting RF working in HS3. You can't change anything like that in HS so you have to run ActiveHome Pro temporarily to reconfigure the CM15 if necessary. Also make sure that any events/etc that you may have saved to the CM15 with ActiveHome Pro are deleted. I spent ages trying to track down a device which appeared to turn off at random only to finally discover it was a hangover from my ActiveHome Pro days stored in the CM15.

            Best of luck,
            Steve

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SteveMSJ View Post
              .
              Some bell in the back of my head makes me think that there are options within the CM15 to determine which Housecodes received as RF are re-transmitted on the powerline. I don't remember how mine is set or whether it is relevant to getting RF working in HS3. You can't change anything like that in HS so you have to run ActiveHome Pro temporarily to reconfigure the CM15 if necessary. Also make sure that any events/etc that you may have saved to the CM15 with ActiveHome Pro are deleted. I spent ages trying to track down a device which appeared to turn off at random only to finally discover it was a hangover from my ActiveHome Pro days stored in the CM15.

              Best of luck,
              Steve
              I tried blocking re-transmission of RF codes with ActiveHome pro, never succeeded. I also tried this in Linux using rftopl command to disable/enable housecodes, again no success. Your experience may be different.
              Disabling all rf has been done with success by cutting away the antenna by Morten, see http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=178046

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SteveMSJ View Post
                Well I am running on Windows so there may be some differences in the plugin.
                Ahh, this difference might also be a reason why I'm having problems. On top of that, the HS3 on the Zee S2 is a cut down version of HS3 for Windows which you are running.

                Originally posted by SteveMSJ View Post

                Not exactly, put the text values Off and On back in the relevant status boxes. I was referring to deleting all the other value pairs that the X15 plugin creates when you create a new device (2, 3, etc).
                Again, some difference. In my Zee S2, it only puts in the one value pair (0;100).

                Originally posted by SteveMSJ View Post
                Interestingly I used to find that it was necessary to stagger X10 commands on ActiveHomePro otherwise only one would get through whereas when I changed to HS2 I no longer had to do that. I don't think I have had that problem with HS3 either.
                In ActiveHome Pro there was an advanced setting to resend commands until it gets a reply. I religiously had that setting enabled, so maybe that is why I didn't have problems with identical trigger timers.

                Anyway, thanks for all the advice. I'll look into it when I get more time. If it takes too much time, a cost benefit might suggest I just ditch the 3 X10 motion sensors and get some new Z-Wave sensors. Much rather spend time on integrating other things like IP cameras, and developing the GUI touch interface. On the GUI interface, I am having problems with status indicators for the X10 devices. Arrgh!

                Andrew

                Comment


                • #9
                  @abwyatt

                  Did you ever get this working properly. I have some DS12A door sensors and MS18 motion sensor that I'm really struggling with. I've even tried the BLSecurity plug-in but can't get anything going at all.

                  Like you, the price of Zwave sensors is too high when compared with X10 so I want to keep as much X10 stuff as possible.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by racerfern View Post
                    . . .the price of Zwave sensors is too high when compared with X10 so I want to keep as much X10 stuff as possible.
                    I'll repeat my earlier advice. Consider a WGL 800RF receiver for the X10 wireless devices. Connect it to the RFXCOM or BLRF plug-in. Based on my experience, I think you will find the performance improvement to be amazing compared to putting the wireless signal onto the power line - both in terms of reliability and response time.
                    Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                    HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548

                    HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF, Rain8Net+ | RFXCOM | QSE100D | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | X10: XTB-232, -IIR | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
                      I'll repeat my earlier advice. Consider a WGL 800RF receiver for the X10 wireless devices. Connect it to the RFXCOM or BLRF plug-in. Based on my experience, I think you will find the performance improvement to be amazing compared to putting the wireless signal onto the power line - both in terms of reliability and response time.
                      +1
                      HS 3.0.0.548: 1976 Devices 1156 Events
                      Z-Wave 3.0.1.262: 123 Nodes on one Z-Net

                      Comment

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