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Network Optimization Best Practices for Z-Wave+ Networks 11/12/18

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    #31
    I'm in the US and all my USB network interfaces are from "Homeseer." Should I have any concerns doing the backup & restore procedure referenced in the sticky. Secondly, should I?

    As a side note I'd like to understand something. If HS says the best thing to do is rebuild a system, I don't get what is the difference between adding 60 nodes in the same day vs. over months or years. Each time a new one is added what difference does it make if it was 10 minutes ago or 10 months? That's implying z-wave networks "age" even when nothing changes.

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      #32
      Originally posted by rjh View Post
      • Z-Wave devices are available in 3 different speeds, 9.6Kbps, 40Kbps, 100Kbps. If your network has mixed speed devices try to not optimize non 100K devices. There are some bugs in some of the older Z-Wave firmware where it will attempt to route at the wrong speed. Not using slower speed devices in routing will remove this possibility.
      • If routing is kept to 100K devices you be assured that your network will run as fast as possible. Imagine if an older 9.6K device was in the center of your network and used in most routing. This would slow down the entire network.
      I'm a little confused on this point, and I don't think there's been a clear answer in this thread. Though I see I'm not the only one thinking about this…

      Originally posted by Timon View Post
      What I would like to see is an option to never make non Z-Wave Plus routers under any condition. Then you could safely do an optimization of any type and know that non-plus nodes would never be routers but they would still know all the plus nodes that are around them and which ones are routers.
      Is it really the case that HomeSeer / the Z-Wave firmware (since Z-Wave plus devices have some capacity to re-route themselves) will route a 100K device through a 40K one when another 100K device is within range and able to reach the controller?

      In my case at least, I don't see any 100K devices routing through other non-100K devices, though I do have 40K devices routing through other 40K devices, which all seems perfectly fine. But I'm worried I may be getting lucky. I'm not really interested in playing games with my network, trying to optimize one node at a time, unless it turns out to be absolutely necessary, but I have had to run a few network optimizations over the years to get things working, and this really seems like something the end user shouldn't have to worry about, if at all possible. (I write this as I'm running an optimization to try to clear up some minor hiccups I'm experiencing after rebuilding my network from scratch on a new controller, and hoping for the best.)

      I'm pretty sure I don't have any devices affected by the firmware routing speed bug, but even then, shouldn't it be possible for HomeSeer to use it's knowledge of the Z-Wave firmware version for each device to avoid creating problematic routes?

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        #33
        I have a couple of ghost devices and I am ready to backup the z-net interface, edit the lines out, and restore it. However, I have 4 z-wave interfaces using a single home-id. Am I supposed to do the backup-edit-restore process for each one, or just he main z-net?

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          #34
          Originally posted by sami View Post
          I have a couple of ghost devices and I am ready to backup the z-net interface, edit the lines out, and restore it. However, I have 4 z-wave interfaces using a single home-id. Am I supposed to do the backup-edit-restore process for each one, or just he main z-net?
          Bump on Sami's post...I am in the same situation and don't see an easy way to clear the secondary controllers without making them primary, doing a network restore and switching primary controller back to the main one...then repeat.

          Ken J.

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            #35
            It is better to remove them through HomeSeer than to edit and restore a backup, especially with more than one controller on the same HomeID. When you restore from a backup, all routing info is cleared. To remove from HomeSeer (if the Device exists in HomeSeer):
            • Go to the Z-Wave tab on the HomeSeer Device
            • Use Test Connectivity and have it fail
            • Immediately Test Connectivity again and let it fail
            • Immediately use Remove Bad Node to remove the node information from the controller(s) and to remove the HomeSeer Devices.
            A Z-Wave node cannot be removed until HomeSeer confirms it is not communicating. The two connectivity tests back to back will confirm it. These tests need to be done immediately before removal.

            If you have nodes in the controller, but no HomeSeer Devices, you can “Import Node Info and Scan Devices”. That is the description in the V3 plug-in. The description is slightly different in the V4 version. That will create HomeSeer Devices for any orphaned node. Then you can use the above steps to test and remove.
            HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.0 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon

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              #36
              Randy,
              Thanks for the fast response and clear guidance. Just spent the last 3 hours cycling through the steps to have all ghost devices removed from all of z-net controllers. Ya! A small victory over something that has been bugging me for awhile...feels good!

              Only outstanding issue that mystifies me is I have 4 devices that are on my Main controller (2 that I just added today, 2 that had been added awhile back) that don't want to be added/synchronized on the secondary controllers.

              I have tried (repeatedly):
              - "Synchronize All Interfaces in this Network" from the Main
              - "Synchronize this interface with the Main Interface" from each of the secondary controllers

              Says operation was completed successfully but the new nodes just don't appear. Any suggestions?

              Ken J.

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                #37
                Originally posted by Kaje View Post
                Randy,
                Thanks for the fast response and clear guidance. Just spent the last 3 hours cycling through the steps to have all ghost devices removed from all of z-net controllers. Ya! A small victory over something that has been bugging me for awhile...feels good!

                Only outstanding issue that mystifies me is I have 4 devices that are on my Main controller (2 that I just added today, 2 that had been added awhile back) that don't want to be added/synchronized on the secondary controllers.

                I have tried (repeatedly):
                - "Synchronize All Interfaces in this Network" from the Main
                - "Synchronize this interface with the Main Interface" from each of the secondary controllers

                Says operation was completed successfully but the new nodes just don't appear. Any suggestions?

                Ken J.
                I don't run any secondary controllers mine are all separate networks. I had so much trouble getting a Primary and Secondary to work 6 years ago, I decided it was smarter to go with independent networks. I vaguely remember having to assign routing to the nearest controller, but that was long ago. Maybe someone is running multiple controllers on the same Home ID and will have suggestions.
                HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.0 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Kaje View Post
                  Randy,
                  Thanks for the fast response and clear guidance. Just spent the last 3 hours cycling through the steps to have all ghost devices removed from all of z-net controllers. Ya! A small victory over something that has been bugging me for awhile...feels good!

                  Only outstanding issue that mystifies me is I have 4 devices that are on my Main controller (2 that I just added today, 2 that had been added awhile back) that don't want to be added/synchronized on the secondary controllers.

                  I have tried (repeatedly):
                  - "Synchronize All Interfaces in this Network" from the Main
                  - "Synchronize this interface with the Main Interface" from each of the secondary controllers

                  Says operation was completed successfully but the new nodes just don't appear. Any suggestions?

                  Ken J.
                  I used to have similar problems with HS3. I have 4 Z-Nets using the same Home ID. Ever since I upgraded to HS4 I haven’t experienced any out of sync controllers. Of course, the new Z-Wave plug-in takes care of that stuff transparently… no manual option is available.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by randy View Post
                    It is better to remove them through HomeSeer than to edit and restore a backup, especially with more than one controller on the same HomeID. When you restore from a backup, all routing info is cleared. To remove from HomeSeer (if the Device exists in HomeSeer):
                    • Go to the Z-Wave tab on the HomeSeer Device
                    • Use Test Connectivity and have it fail
                    • Immediately Test Connectivity again and let it fail
                    • Immediately use Remove Bad Node to remove the node information from the controller(s) and to remove the HomeSeer Devices.
                    A Z-Wave node cannot be removed until HomeSeer confirms it is not communicating. The two connectivity tests back to back will confirm it. These tests need to be done immediately before removal.

                    If you have nodes in the controller, but no HomeSeer Devices, you can “Import Node Info and Scan Devices”. That is the description in the V3 plug-in. The description is slightly different in the V4 version. That will create HomeSeer Devices for any orphaned node. Then you can use the above steps to test and remove.
                    Hi Randy,

                    Thanks for the response. That procedure makes logical sense and I will use it in future for any ghost devices on the controllers.

                    I do have one remaining question:

                    I have 4 z-nets using the same Home ID with close to 80 z-net nodes. It appears that over the years the routing tables have gotten messy as I see several hops that make no sense. It is also manifested in random devices being unable to communicate at random times. Not very bad, but still questionable reliability. I wanted to follow your recommendations for optimizing the network, i.e. not to do full optimizations anymore (I must have done it 20+ times over the years), instead do a backup and restore of the z-nets to clear out the routing tables and let them build back with the new HS4 z-wave plugin.

                    How do I go about backing up and restoring the 4 z-nets? Do I backup each one and restore it to itself, or do I backup the MAIN and restore it to all 4?

                    Thank you in advance!

                    Kind regards,
                    Sam

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by sami View Post


                      How do I go about backing up and restoring the 4 z-nets? Do I backup each one and restore it to itself, or do I backup the MAIN and restore it to all 4?

                      Thank you in advance!

                      Kind regards,
                      Sam
                      I wish I could help. I tried building a secondary controller under HS3 6 years ago. Irt was a nightmare to keep running. I changed my system such that each controller is on a separate HomeID. I haven't touched secondary controllers since.

                      There are some who are successfully running a Primary/Secondary controller setup. Maybe one of them has ideas.

                      HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.0 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon

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