HomeSeer and (X10 or Z-Wave)?

[cwaters]

[I posted this to the New Users forum, also...]

I'm seriously considering purchasing HomeSeer and some X10 devices from SmartHome.com. The devices would be used to control lighting and (in time) monitor and control other things, including a thermostat. HomeSeer, X10, and Z-Wave are entirely new to me.

Googling HomeSeer brought me to this web site.

I was surprised to see references here to Z-Wave. I'm not familiar with Z-Wave, but I gather that it is an alternative to X10; is that correct? Is Z-Wave the preferred interface for use with HomeSeer? What are the advantages of one over the other?

I'm concerned that I may have communication problems with X10 over my older electrical wiring and am wondering if Z-Wave would be a better solution. What do you think?

[sonypoolplr]

You won't know about any x10 signal problems until you start hooking up devices and try to control them. Even then what works today might not work tomorrow because of noise on the powerline. Z-wave has the advantange over x10 in this because of the way zwave is transmitted between each device and not over the powerline. Is it better? That's debatable. I have x10 and zwave and the zwave does operate everytime, and so do most of the x10. If you go the x10 route a coupler/repeater is definitly a must.

[cwaters]

Thanks! Is Z-Wave a newer or older technology? Are the same types of devices available for both? I'm not sure if SmartHome sells Z-Wave devices; can you recommend any vendors?

[donstephens]

Z-wave is new technology. It appears to be way more robust than X10. Downside is lack of modules, at this time. See http://www.smarthome.com/1129.HTML.

Don

[Rupp]

cwaters,
A very good vendor who posts here frequently is Martin. His business is http://www.automatedoutlet.com He has some of the best prices in the business.

[cwaters]

Good to know; thanks.

Speaking of new technology, have you ever heard of something called "Instion"? I called SmartHome tech support to ask about their Z-Wave products. The technician expressed his opinion that "Instion" (not sure about spelling) would quickly replace Z-Wave. It sounded like some kind of X10/Z-Wave hybrid. He mentioned that it's not widely available yet, but will be much less expensive than Z-Wave.

(Not trying to start a debate here--I'm just trying to learn as much as I can about this stuff before making an investment!)

[Rupp]

cwaters,
No matter what technology you decide to go with you will more than likely end up with a mixture. I would suggest jumping in with a few x10 lamp and appliance modules and see how it goes. The new instion sp? will work with X10 as well. One thing to be aware of with X10 is the dual phase problem that is present in most homes and X10's inability to get from one phase to the other. If you go with X10 you should consider buying a coupler/repeater to eliminate the phase problem.


http://www.worthdist.com/leviton/hca02-10e.htm

[rocco]

My humble opinion is that Insteon is a fine technology that just might become as popular as CeBus. Then again, when it comes to home-automation, I would not advocate a proprietary technology. Then again, Z-Wave is proprietary.

[Rupp]

Rocco,
Is CeBus popular?

[Rick Tinker]

CeBus is dead. Gone. Kaput. El'Zilcho. Nada.... At least in the U.S.

It took 13 years for CEBus to get ratified and standardized, and by then everybody said "Forget it - not good enough, fast enough, or cheap enough."

I believe it is more popular in Europe though.

Herman Cardinas (CEO of NetStreams) had a company that did absolutely the most for CEBus in the U.S. - they shipped products and everything!

[JLehnert]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The technician expressed his opinion that "Instion" (not sure about spelling) would quickly replace Z-Wave. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Smarthome is not an exactly unbiased observer here, as Smarthome created/owns Instion (or however it's spelled). I would take his comment with a (very large) grain of salt.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> He mentioned that it's not widely available yet, but will be much less expensive than Z-Wave <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Smarthome being a low price leader?!? That will be a change. Again, I would not take his comment as gospel.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Not trying to start a debate her <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No problem. "Debates" are good.

[rocco]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rupp:
Is CeBus popular? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, I assumed everyone knew about CeBus.

CeBus was supposed to be the X10 killer, but it was born dead. It was fine technology, but it simply never gained enough momentum to drive the price to acceptable levels.

I see Insteon as being in an even worse position. It may be a fine technology, but has no technological edge over Z-Wave, can never be as cheap as Z-Wave, and will be too late to garner any momentum from Z-Wave.

IMHO, the only threat to Z-Wave might be ZigBee.

[cwaters]

Thanks, everyone! I didn't realize that SmartHome has a vested interest in Instion.

It sounds like Z-Wave might be the best way for me to go. Other than a lack of modules, are there any other negatives with Z-Wave? Seems to be more pricey than X10. Is Z-Wave susceptible to WiFi / cordless-phone / other interference? Anything else I should know?

[HiTech]

Z-Wave is the best in the long run, but I agree with Rupp. Plan on a mix, start with X10. New Z-Wave devices are around the corner. Prepare for Z-wave and don't over invest in X10.

Forget the SmartHome Stuff See my reasons why

To answer the question<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Is Z-Wave susceptible to WiFi / cordless-phone / other interference? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> WiFi & Cordless Phones should not interfere. Z-wave operates near the same Freq (908.42MHz) as cordless phones, but according to manufacture it is just above stationary channel phones and Spread Spectrum Phones skip all around the freq but only for a very, very short time. In practical application I have not had any interference at all with any of my 21 Z-Wave modules.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Anything else I should know? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What makes Z-Wave great is that it builds a network with one primary controller (just like a network router and can have other types of secondary controllers) This network is of a lower bandwidth than 802.11 which is perfect for communication to/from all kinds of devices, i.e.: motion sensors, temp probes, thermostats, etc. Some of these devices should be very close to market, but I don't really know.

What I can tell you is... I am a Z-Wave developer and very excited to be part this new technology!

Rick Higgs
HiTech Automation

[cwaters]

Thanks, Rick. I look forward to learning more about Z-Wave.

I read a few of the posts (including your post), but I don't see a reason to avoid SmartHome. I recently returned a Veo camera to them well beyond the 30-day time period and they gave me no trouble.