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4 z-wave interfaces and 2 networks VS 4 z-wave interfaces and 4 networks

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  • 4 z-wave interfaces and 2 networks VS 4 z-wave interfaces and 4 networks

    Right now I have 4 z-wave interfaces and 2 networks to cover the house and number of devices.

    2 smart sticks (as main controllers) and 2 z-nets (as secondary controllers).

    I find it frustrating to keep devices in sync between two interfaces on the same network. Synchronization just doesn't work for me too often.

    I will be replacing smart sticks with Z-nets. To avoid the frustration with syncing devices between two interfaces I am thinking I could just have 4 Z-nets as main controllers and 4 networks. I assuming I can have 4 networks running with one Homeseer.

    Before I try to do that I want to ask here if there are any drawbacks to having 4 z-wave interfaces and 4 networks a opposed to my existing setup where I have 4 Z-wave interfaces (2x primary and 2 secondary) and 2 networks.

    I appreciate your input. Charles



  • #2
    Here I've setup systems both ways.
    One system has 11 znets and 11 networks.
    Another has 4 znets on 1 network. And it syncs perfectly.

    There are so many factors to consider I couldn't say that one is better than the other.
    Blair

    HomeSeer: HS3 Pro 3.0.0.435
    Hometroller S6 | Devices: 601 | Events: 202
    Plug-Ins: Z-Wave .190 | HSTouch | RFXCOM | UltraRachio3
    BLLAN | NetCAM | Global Cache Pro | Blur-Iris :rolleyes:

    Comment


    • #3
      I was wondering - are you sure you want so many controllers just to cover a house? If you have your nodes divided into different Z-Wave networks, you may get better performance by simplifying to use a single controller, and letting the Z-Wave mesh handle the distant nodes via hops; this would also put more nodes into the same mesh strengthening the number of interconnections.

      My understanding is that Z-Wave uses a pretty simple transmitter with a simple frequency plan with a maximum of 3 channels in the U.S. (fewer in other regions and in older Z-Wave devices). Devices will "listen" to the channels to try and avoid using the same channel at the same time, but they are susceptible to the "hidden node" problem. Thus, if you want transmit to a large number of devices, say 50, and that's divided over two controllers, each will be trying to transmit their 25 packets at the same time and may try to transmit over the same channel causing collision. A single controller, on the other hand, will always transmit packets one after another or on different channels and won't cause collisions (at least not by the controller - collisions can still happen as nodes transmit). Separate Z-nets may make more sense if you have to cover physically disjoint areas (a house plus a separated garage, for example). You may have an unusual setup where multiple controllers do make sense, in which case, ignore all of this; otherwise, I just wanted to bring it to your attention so you can consider this as you work out the complexities of using multiple controllers

      Comment


      • #4
        jvm
        I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking for it if others.

        I need at least two networks due to number of nodes I have. Z-wave traffic is a big factor here. This is large rental property and there can be 40 or more people moving in the house at the same time in many rooms.

        Minimizing collisions is important.

        I'm getting a lot of Z-wave errors and I'm not sure if that is because Z- wave traffic or something else.

        It is different than most will have mostly because of size of the home and number of devices.

        I have have sorted out everything logistically. Now I need to see if I can stabilize network to the point where I don't get too many errors.. Mostly radiated to Homeseer switches.

        Thanks, Charles

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BlairG View Post
          Here I've setup systems both ways.
          One system has 11 znets and 11 networks.
          Another has 4 znets on 1 network. And it syncs perfectly.

          There are so many factors to consider I couldn't say that one is better than the other.
          @BlairG
          It's good to hear that things are syncing for you. I guess there is hope then. :-) Maybe you can give me some tips how to deal with that.

          My issue is that when I add new device to network 1 to main controller (Smart stick) it will add new node as expected. Then I can see message that it is sending changes to Z-Net (secondary controller) on the same network but node number is not updated and device info is not sent to Z-net (no errors and success message is shown). For some time I could use "Synchronize this interface with main interface" from Z-Net right after adding new node to main controller and it would update Z-Net. Not anymore.

          In both situations there is no error. It will actually say that Z-Net successfully received a network update but I can see that new node is not on Z-net but it is on main interface (smart Stick)

          The only way reliably to get same devices on Z-net is erase it, include it as secondary controller again. That is of course pain the @$$ as I have to move Z-Net to close proximity of main controller.

          Main difference is that you have all Z-Nets if I understand it right and I have combo of Smart Stick and Z-Net.




          Comment


          • #6
            Threads like these is why I've got one of these on my wishlist: https://z-wavealliance.org/cit/

            Not sure on requirements to become a member, but it should also be possible to DIY one with a Z-Wave.ME kit.

            Expensive 'toy' obviously, but if your installation is that big then the time saved diagnosing all these weird issues should quickly pay for itself.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RoChess View Post
              Threads like these is why I've got one of these on my wishlist: https://z-wavealliance.org/cit/

              Not sure on requirements to become a member, but it should also be possible to DIY one with a Z-Wave.ME kit.

              Expensive 'toy' obviously, but if your installation is that big then the time saved diagnosing all these weird issues should quickly pay for itself.
              Might be good investment for sure! Going insane will cost me more money.. LOL

              Thanks for the tip.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RoChess View Post
                Threads like these is why I've got one of these on my wishlist: https://z-wavealliance.org/cit/

                Not sure on requirements to become a member, but it should also be possible to DIY one with a Z-Wave.ME kit.

                Expensive 'toy' obviously, but if your installation is that big then the time saved diagnosing all these weird issues should quickly pay for itself.
                The lowest cost membership is as an Integrator at $250 per year. Here are all the levels. I think the CIT tool can only look at one network (HomeID) at a time.
                Randy Prade
                Aurora, CO
                Prades.net

                PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rprade View Post
                  The lowest cost membership is as an Integrator at $250 per year. Here are all the levels. I think the CIT tool can only look at one network (HomeID) at a time.
                  and not too many benefits..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    @rprade

                    Maybe I need to invite you for lunch in the mountains one day and you can help me figure out things.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm not sure i am smart enough to figure it out, but i would be willing to offer a fresh set of eyes. I'll send you my contact info by PM.
                      Randy Prade
                      Aurora, CO
                      Prades.net

                      PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm going to start a new thread, there has to be at least one HomeSeer user that owns a CIT to explain the pros/cons of owning one.

                        One of the companies my work partners with is near Keystone, Colorado, so if I ever make my way up there for a conference I'll inquire if anybody wants to show off their HomeSeer setup

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          While typing the thread out, I was reminded of a diagnostic product from one of the suppliers I often buy stuff from:

                          https://www.zwaveproducts.com/collec...z-wave-toolbox

                          Happens to be on sale for $149, but I also have no experience or knowledge on that one, so plan to call them to get more info. Price is very reasonable at the moment, and requires no membership fee to qualify in buying one, but it could also be that the reason it is on sale is that product is going to be end-of-life soon, gearing up to be replaced with better model, or doesn't sell well due to poor functionality.

                          Original plan has always been for me to build my own with like a Z-Wave.ME kit and other parts from AliExpress, but got plenty of other projects to keep me busy again this winter and sometimes it is nice to grab something that "just works".

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RoChess View Post
                            stuff from:

                            https://www.zwaveproducts.com/collec...z-wave-toolbox

                            Happens to be on sale for $149, but I also have no experience
                            I have one and it's kinda helpful, you include it into your HomeID. Like randy said, one one HomeID at a time. As it sits on your mesh it talks and listen's to your devices. Then you connect to this toolbox thru an AdHoc SSID it provides.

                            So with 4 znets on one network, it would see all devices. Where there is 11 each on their own network, the device would have to join each network to be used.
                            Blair

                            HomeSeer: HS3 Pro 3.0.0.435
                            Hometroller S6 | Devices: 601 | Events: 202
                            Plug-Ins: Z-Wave .190 | HSTouch | RFXCOM | UltraRachio3
                            BLLAN | NetCAM | Global Cache Pro | Blur-Iris :rolleyes:

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BlairG View Post
                              I have one and it's kinda helpful, you include it into your HomeID.
                              I'm guessing the 601 devices in your profile refers to HomeSeer's definition of a device entry and not the physical device aka node? How many nodes does your setup entail, and do you just run it off a single SmartStick+ or did you go with Z-Net? So far I'm still expanding my setup slowly and have boxes full of Z-Wave devices I still need to include, but haven't ran into any real issue yet. With just 18 nodes at the moment I can see the Z-Wave network getting chatty already, especially all the power-measuring devices I got. Should be fine at 40Kbps, but this new location will be about 3x larger than my old Vera3 setup with 40-nodes and response time is critical for me.

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